I like to use hybrid yeasts to make lagers, particularly Imperial Yeast G03 Dieter, despite concerns expressed by others I would never get that “crisp lager character” using such a method. I used this method with my (m)Oktoberfest recipe that took 1st place in its division in a local BJCP comp with a score of 40 points. Not one judge mentioned anything about the beer not tasting like a traditional lager.
(m)Oktoberfest
Recipe Details
| Batch Size | Boil Time | IBU | SRM | Est. OG | Est. FG | ABV |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 5.5 gal | 60 min | 23.5 | 9.6 SRM | 1.055 | 1.013 | 5.51 % |
| Actuals | 1.055 | 1.013 | 5.51 % | |||
Fermentables
| Name | Amount | % |
|---|---|---|
| Vienna Malt | 5 lbs | 47.06 |
| Munich I | 2.5 lbs | 23.53 |
| Pilsner | 2 lbs | 18.82 |
| Caramel Malt 60L | 8 oz | 4.71 |
| Honey Malt | 8 oz | 4.71 |
| Special B | 2 oz | 1.18 |
Hops
| Name | Amount | Time | Use | Form | Alpha % |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Hallertauer Mittelfrueh | 45 g | 60 min | Boil | Pellet | 4 |
| Hallertauer Mittelfrueh | 20 g | 15 min | Boil | Pellet | 4 |
Yeast
| Name | Lab | Attenuation | Temperature |
|---|---|---|---|
| Dieter (G03) | Imperial Yeast | 77% | 60.8°F - 68°F |
Notes
| Water Profile: Ca 67 | Mg 1 | Na 10 | SO4 94 | Cl 48 |
Download
| Download this recipe's BeerXML file |
82 thoughts on “(m)Oktoberfest”
How big of a starter do you make? About 2L just like a regular lager?
Whatever yeastcalculator.com tells me, plus another liter or so for harvesting 🙂
White labs says of their WLP029 that “Optimum Ferment Temp.65-69°F, 18-20°C (Does not ferment well less than 62°F, or 16°C, unless during active fermentation)”. Have you often used it at high lager temperatures without any problem?
Which other yeast would you recommend if someone were concerned about it?
I only ferment 029 at 58F, never had an issue. I’m sure itll be fine fermented a bit warmer too.
Hey how do you feel about using the Wyeast 2206 Bavarian Lager Yeast for this?
I’m sure it will work fine.
Would you ferment at the same temperatures mentioned using the lager yeast?
66F with Imperial L17. So good.
Would malanoidin malt be a reasonable substitute for Honey malt? I cant get Honey malt in Australia.
It could be, but I might drop it down to only 2 oz, as I get way different things from Honey Malt than I do Melanoidin. Cheers!
Hello, have this beer in the fementetion tank, but it has stuck on 1.020, what fg do you normaly get on this one?
I get about 1.012 SG on this one, usually only takes a week or so. I might suggest gently swirling the beer and, if you haven’t already, bumping the temp to ~70˚F.
Have you ever fermented this at a steady 65-66 instead of keeping it cool and ramping it up?
I have not. I’m doubtful it’d make a huge difference.
Sounds good. My plan is to brew this. I need to get a ‘Marzen’ on tap.
This has a boil time of 90 min, but a first hopping at 60. I was curious if 90 min boil was really needed? Have you done this with 60?
I’ve boiled this beer for 60, it works just fine, I no longer boil for 90 these days at all 🙂
Could I use Saflager W/34–70 on this?
Of course you can, I might recommend a slightly cooler fermentation, though it might work fine at 58˚F as well. I’ve fermented this beer with 34/70 at 50˚F and it came out great!
So Ferment at 50°F for 4-5 days then ramp up to 65° over the next few days?
Exactly. Or use the quick lager method, it’s basically the same thing:
brulosophy.com/lager-method
First off, fantastic site!! I’m planning on brewing this next weekend and I was just inputting it into Beersmith. Would this be classified as a Marzen? Also, this is probably a silly question, your 15 minute hop addition is “16.00 g” I take it that the g stands for grams?
Yeah, Märzen and grams. Let me know what you think when it’s done!
Thanks for the quick response. I’ve been wanting to try the no spare method you talk about. Would this be a good one to try it on?
For sure! I’d say plan on getting 5-7% less efficiency for the first go round.
Ok love your site and can’t wait to try this and your Helles Recipe (Both use the hybrid yeast).
If I only had the option of throwing this in a fermentation chamber at 50F or one at 63F which would you choose? (I know its a random question…long story)
Thanks!
Not at all random. If you’re using WLP029, I’d go with the 63°F chamber, the beer ought to turn out nearly as good. Cheers!
So using the quick lager method and Saflager 34/70, here is what I’m guessing my STC-1000+ temp profile should be (once I see bubbling in my airlock):
sp0: 50
dh0: 120 (5 days)
sp1: 50
dh1: 36 (1.5 day)
sp2: 65
dh2: 144 (6 days)
sp3: 65
dh3: 84 (3.5 days)
sp4: 33
dh4: 0
Does this look ok?
That ought to work fine. Keep an eye on the beer post-pitch, as I’m sure you will, and make sure there’s a krausen within 48 hours of engaging the profile, that way you’ll ensure the yeast has been working for at least 3 days before the ramp begins. Cheers!
If I were to brew this recipe using the Brew In A Bag method, would I need a 12-14 gallon kettle?
Given the 9.25 gallons that would be added to begin with plus the grain bill using BIAB, would a 14 gallon kettle be required?
With BIAB, your volume losses are actually a bit less compared to batch sparge, which is what the recipe was designed for. I’ve brewed this beer using BIAB in my 14.5 gal kettle, there was quite a bit of room left during the mash. By my very rudimentary calculations, this batch scaled to BIAB would require just under 8 gallons of strike water. Hope that helps!
I’m on the hook for a (m)Oktoberfest for drinking in 3 weeks. If I use this grain bill, mash as you suggest, and use a high atten./floc strain like 04, think it’ll be drinkable if I use your ale fermentation schedule?
If you keg, you can use 029 the same way I do and it’ll be ready in 3 weeks.
Used 04 at 63 as I can only do dry yeasts.
But this is one fabulous beer recipe and it turned out great!!
Thanks for sharing!
Would you mind posting any of the minerals you use or the water profile that you think works best? I plan on building the water profile up from distilled water.
Amber Malty in Bru’n Water… not around computer right now 🙂
This beer is VERY good! I began brewing in FEB 14 and this recipe was my 30th brew – also my first to go into a keg. The only aspect of brewing that I have not cracked the nut on is amending water. Even using filtered tap water this beer rocks! I really like 029 and I’m looking forward to brewing other recipes using this yeast. Additionally, I really appreciate the scientific approach you guys are taking to the art of brewing. Keep up the good work!
Cheers!
Having trouble figuring out my 60 min hop addition. I can’t math.
Doing a 10 gallon (packaged) batch and the hops are saaz 3% AA. Do I need close to 4 oz for bittering? Is that right?
In order to get to the targeted IBU, that may be the case. Feel free to swap out the Saaz 60 min addition for something like Magnum or Warrior, it works fine, I’ve done it a few times!
Hi honey malt is unavailable in my part of the world. What you you recommend as a substitute
Thanks
Some say Aromatic/Melanoidin malt is close enough. I think they’re different, but there’s really no comparable malt on the market.
I know this thread has not had any activity in a bit, but I wanted to give a sincere THANK YOU for this recipe specifically steering me towards this hybrid yeast. Had the neighbors over on Easter, and they killed my 5 gallons in a couple hours! This is the 7th all-grain BIAB I have done and it turned out great. The schwarzbier is in the fermenter as we speak and I will be going through the list of lagers to see if they taste as good as this beer.
A couple questions on style. My beer was a beautiful amber color, but looking at the style sheets for Oktoberfest beer, should it be lighter? The color seemed to align more with a Marzen style perhaps? Noob question so be gentle….
Also, should I be able to use this yeast for most other lager type beers as well as the method of fermentation, (i.e. 58 degrees for 4-5 days then raise the temp)?
Again, Thank you sooooo much! I am still trying to choke down a lemon grass saison I brewed at the beginning of the year. Wish that would kick as quick as this one did!
Märzen and OFest used to be basically the same, I believe the new guidelines might delineate them.
I’m brewing with bottled water because city water is terrible. The bottled water profile is Ca 2.4 Mg 1.0 Na 4.5 SO4 1.8 Cl 6.5 from their website. I am concerned that there is not enough Ca and Mg for the yeast. Do you have a target profile for the Oktoberfest?
I use the “Yellow Bitter” profile in Bru’n Water for this beer and it works great!
Curious as to why “Yellow” and not “Amber”?
Is there an IBU criteria/range for “Malty”, “Balanced” and “Bitter” profiles?
I prefer the higher sulfate of the Yellow profile in most of my lagers, hence I use it for styles ranging from Helles to Schwarzbier. While pre-set profiles are great, over time people who mess with their water sometimes develop particular preferences. Cheers!
Marshall, I brewed this beer on May 21. Fermented at 58* for 5 days, then ramped to 65* for 13 days now. I have not checked FG. I do not have enough time for cold crash, bottle condition, and refrigerate before I get too busy with work. I want to leave the beer in the primary fermenter until July 4th. Should I leave the fermenter temp at 65* until July 4th, or set it at what temp?
I’d check FG and, if it’s finished, leave the beer cold.
FG is 1.006, will recheck in 3 days. I forgot to check pre-boil gravity. Post-boil OG was 1.042, a little low compared to your notes. I was spot-on with mash temp. Stirred every 15 minutes, had to add a quart or so to keep temp even. I thought everything went well. Beersmith had me batch sparge in 4 steps. Thanks for your time.
Wanting to brew this through one step BIAB. Any adjustments to mash temperature or general process?
I’ve been having great luck using 34/70 fermented at 66F instead of 029 🙂
So you don’t do the quick lager method? How does it affect the flavor profile fermenting that yeast at that high temp. Also, does your mash temp stay around 152 for the whole 60 minutes? I’m not planning on sparging.
Long time lurker, first time to comment. What size starter would you suggest making for this beer? I plan to brew this this weekend. BTW – had the great pleasure of meeting Malcom at Beer and Sweat a few weeks back. Man, his beers were amazing, and he was a super nice guy. Thanks again!
Malcolm is a badass, to be sure, and a great a brewer!
When it comes to starters, I used the BrewUnited starter calculator to determine the right size. However, for the last few months, nearly every lager I make has been fermented with a rehydrated sachet of Saflager W-34/70 at 66°F. They all come out super clean and delicious, and they can be turned around in as little as 2 weeks.
Awesome! Thanks for the quick reply! Just one packet of rehydrated 34/70? Thanks again, man!
That’s it!
Just made this beer, tweaking for scale and taste to an OG of 1059. Finished exactly as predicted on the day predicted and after crashing made for a delicious beer with a strong caramel note. My grist was all Euro and Inused the WLP029. Thanks!
Yo Marshall I’ve been using WLP 029 and my beers are generally not crystal clear, even fining with gelatin, until they sit in the keezer for about a month. I batch sparge in a cooler with a bag and then gelatin in primary for 48 hours after I’ve cold crashed for 24. Once clear the taste is definitely crisper and more lager-like in my experience. Maybe water or some other variable of method is in play here? By the way, thanks for all you do. You’re the David Hume of beer.
Thanks for the kind words! My only guess would be water chem, but I really have no clue.
I am mashing this right now. 10 degrees higher at 162 by accident. What should I expect/do at this point?
Full volume biab btw.
I brewed this BIAB with 1.6% melanoidin malt as I couldn’t get any honey malt in the UK. Pitched onto half a 34-70 yeastcake from a Helles. Fermented at 18C with a 2 day D-rest at 21C. Cold crashed to 0C and fined with gelatin. Carbed up for 4 days and the result was the best beer I’ve ever brewed 2 weeks grain to glass. Will definitely be making this a staple. Cheers!!
Awesome!
What sort of water profile do you use for your Oktoberfest? Also do you ever mess with adding acid to your batch sparge water? Thanks
Disregard. Sorry. I saw a comment with an answer. Thanks.
Hey Marshal – What final gravity do you shoot for with this beer?
Ideally, 1.012 SG, but anywhere between 1.010 and 1.014 is great.
I don’t have a setup to do full all grain recipes, do you think if I used 3.3lbs briess goldpils Vienna extract and 3.3lbs briess Munich extract (40/60 munich/pils) and did a mini mash with the specialty grains an a pound of Munich that I could get something close to this?
Would German Tradition hops be a good sub?
I’ve never used that variety… but I bet it’d be fine.
Which water profile do you use for this?
Do you think one 11.5g packet of 34/70 is enough for 5 gallons of 1.052?
If it’s relatively fresh, yeah.
Marshall, I pitched a rehydrated packet of 34/70 and fermented at 66. It’s now a week out and it’s been at 1.020 per my tilt now for a few days. I upped the temp to 68 just to see if that would help and no change. Should I pitch another packet of 34/70? Thanks
Total newbie here (haven’t brewed my first batch yet, still doing research). How do you measure hops by IBU contributions instead of weight?
Use recipe design software and make sure to input the AA% of the hops you’re using. I prefer BeerSmith. From there, you add the amount of hops it takes to achieve the desired IBU.
I’ve read a lot of good things about BeerSmith. Seems the best tool for the job. Thanks for the reply!
What temperature would you cold crash at? Thanks in advance. Cheers!
33F
Just made this recipe in early August using Imperial Dieter yeast. After lagering for a month, I tapped the keg for the start of Octoberfest this last Saturday. Wow! What a great beer recipe. Thank you for sharing.