NOTE: The method I discuss here includes ideas similar to those proposed by Ludwig Narziss and Greg Noonan long before I came along, a couple dudes often credited for inspiring the public to brew and drink more delicious lager beer!
I’m a lover of all things lager- Márzen, Schwarzbier, Helles, and Pilsner are some of favorite styles. As a homebrewer, I initially avoided making lager beer due to my inability to precisely control fermentation temperature. Once I finally got my chamber setup and made a couple lagers using more traditional fermentation schedules, I found myself avoiding them due to how long they took to finish. I also began wondering how I might be able to hasten the process. I had learned that with precise control of my temperature, I could turn most ales around in 2 weeks and wondered why I couldn’t use this control to do the same with lager beers. I made a couple batches that came out surprisingly well, played with the method for a few months, and was gradually convincing myself the days of 2 month lagers were behind me. After numerous successful batches, I happen to catch an episode of The Session on The Brewing Network where Mike “Tasty” McDole mentioned how he takes lager grain-to-glass in 2 weeks using precise control of fermentation temperature. This was validating, particularly since I was aiming for a much less anxiety provoking 3-4 week turnaround.
German brewers began making lager beers long before the advent of controllable refrigeration, fermenting and conditioning their beer in caves that maintained a fairly consistent 45°-55°F. They also brewed with the seasons, hence beers like Märzen, which was only brewed between September 29 and April 23 with consumption usually commencing in late Summer through October. The point I’m trying to make here is that the long-term fermentation and aging appears to be mostly a function of the inability to control environmental temperature.
A few things we’ve learned over the last couple centuries of brewing is that yeast generally works slower at cooler temperatures and faster at warmer temperatures, most esters and phenolics are produced during the growth phase of fermentation, which in my experience lasts about 4-5 days for cool fermented lagers, and beer lagers faster at colder temperatures. I know, there’s supposedly something else that magically happens to a beer over time besides just clarity, but let’s be real here, clarity is what most of us are waiting for as the indication that a beer is ready to drink. And if I’m being totally honest, I sort of enjoy the very minimal perceptible changes that occur in a beer over the 2-3 weeks I have it on tap.
| THE METHOD |
Step 1: Primary Fermentation
Chill wort to pitching temp of 48°-53°F (9°-12°C), pitch adequately sized starter (decanted), set regulator to initial fermentation temp between 50°-55°F (10°-13°C), and leave the beer to ferment until it is at least 50% attenuated. I’ve found the time this takes is dependent on 2 primary factors:
1. Original Gravity: a 1.080 Doppelbock is going to take longer to reach 50% attenuation than a 1.048 Helles.
2. Yeast Type: in my experience, rehydrated dry lager yeasts take 12-36 hours longer to show signs of active fermentation compared to liquid yeasts built up in starters or even slurry harvested from a prior batch.
I originally advised leaving the fermenting beer at primary temp for 5 days assuming folks were checking SG prior to making temp changes. This was a mistake on my part. While it is possible even high OG beers will reach 50% attenuation in this amount of time, I’ve heard from a couple folks who experience differently. As such, here are my new better-safe-than-sorry recommendations:
| OG of Wort | Yeast Type | Approximate Primary Time |
|---|---|---|
| ≤ 1.060 OG | Liquid | 4-7 days |
| ≤ 1.060 OG | Dry | 5-8 days |
| ≥ 1.061 | Liquid | 6-10 days |
| ≥ 1.061 | Dry | 7-14 days |
Another factor worth considering is your preferred primary fermentation temperature, as yeast is going to work a bit faster at 54°F (12°C) compared to 48°F/ (9°C). The original 5 day recommendation will likely hold true for most folks, as it has for me, I just want to emphasize the importance of taking SG measurements prior to making temp changes.
Step 2: The Ramp Up
Once 50% attenuation is reached, remove the probe from the side of the fermentor so it measures ambient temp in the chamber and start bumping the regulator up 5°F every 12 hours until it reaches 65°-68°F (18°-20°C). Allow the beer to remain at this temp until fermentation is complete and the yeast have cleaned-up after themselves, which can take anywhere from 4 to 10 days.
Alternate Option
Keep the temp probe attached to the fermentor and forgo the incremental temperature increases but immediately setting your regulator to 65°-68°F (18°-20°C). While I still prefer the more gentle approach to temp increases, I’ve heard from many people have had great success using this slightly less time-consuming approach.
Step 3: The Ramp Down
When FG is stable and no diacetyl or acetaldehyde is detected in the beer, begin ramping the temp down in 5°-8°F increments every 12 hours or so until it reaches 30°-32°F (-1°-0°C). Allow the beer to remain at this temp for 3-5 days, during which it will begin to drop clear.
Alternate Option 1
Setting the regulator to 30°-32°F (-1°-0°C) without gradually stepping the temp down will shave 2-3 days off of the entire process. Many brewers have done this with positive results, myself included, though I still tend to prefer the original method if only to reduce the amount of airlock fluid that gets sucked into the beer as it crashes.
Alternate Option 2
If super bright beer is something you pine for, as I do, and you’re okay with putting animal products in your beer, as I am, consider adding gelatin once the temp of the beer has reached 50°F (10°C). In my experience, this has significantly decreased the amount of time required for the beer to clear to commercial levels, I usually end up kegging 24-48 hours after adding the gelatin.
Step 4: Packaging & Storage
Once the beer is clear, it’s ready to be packaged, the process of which is obviously different depending on whether one uses kegs or bottles. Yes, bottle conditioning is absolutely possible with this method.
For Those Who Keg…
Simply transfer the cold and clear beer to your keg, place it in your keezer on gas, and leave it for 3+ days before enjoying! Using my typical kegging/carbonation method in conjunction with gelatin, I’ve found the beer is usually ready for consumption after about 5 days of “lagering” in my keezer, while others swear their beers peak after 2 weeks or so of cold storage. This is likely an issue of subjective preference mixed with a sprinkle of confirmation bias, but regardless, do what you works best for you!
For Those Who Bottle…
Use a trusted priming sugar calculator to determine the amount of your preferred fermentable to use; adding extra yeast is unnecessary, even if you fined with gelatin. Place the primed bottles in an environment that maintains a fairly consistent 68°-72°F (20°-23°C) and allow them to carbonate for 2-3 weeks. Once carbonated, I recommend placing multiple bottles in the fridge to “bottle lager” for 5+ days before enjoying, as this will encourage the precipitation of most particulate matter, providing you a clear and delicious lager beer.
| EVIDENCE |
To the skeptics out there or those who feel anxious questioning convention, I understand completely, believe me. I know it’s not easy trusting some dude you’ve never met, but I mean it when I say the many lager beers I’ve made using this method have tasted exactly how they were brewed to taste, no different than those I made in the past using the traditional drawn-out method. If you’ve been holding off from making lager beer because of the time commitment, consider giving this method a shot, I have a feeling you’ll be brewing many more lagers in the future if you do.
Cheers!
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597 thoughts on “Lager Method”
I am enjoying my first batch of Bohemian Pilsner brewed using this technique after reading your post on Reddit r/homebrewing.
It worked as expected , producing a good clean crisp beer. No diactyl, lovely and bright and well carbonated in the bottle. My previous attempts using this recipe but with a more traditional long lagering period resulted in a poor carbonation. It seems my yeast (Wyeast 2124 Bo Pils) survives much better through the fast fermentaion schedule leaving it in better shape for carbing.
I’m planning another batch now with a slightly adjusted recipe but I fully intend to continue using this fast fermentation schedule unchanged.
Thanks!
That’s great, Paul!
Checking in again. I have completed several brews now using the fast fermentation process and I’m getting great results. I have a vienna lager just ready for kegging tonight after brewing over the holidays. I’m going to stick a pilsner in on the yeast cake and go again.
I live in the southern hemisphere so its summer here. You cant beat a cold lager on a hot day but I would never be able to brew enough to see me through the summer if I was using a long slow traditional ferm timetable.
Cheers!
Why switch from tracking beer temp to ambient temp?
This is a question I’ve actually gotten a few times, a good one, indeed. My thinking in having the probe measure ambient is that it wouldn’t take as long for ambient to get to the target temp, meaning the beer would actually cool more slowly than if the probe was attached to the fermenter. I hope that makes some sense. Basically, with the probe attached to the fermenter, the freezer would continuously run until the beer was the target temp, which takes considerably longer. Anyway, I’ve actually done it both ways with no ill effect, I just prefer the ambient approach. Cheers!
I would add also, that the temperature of 5-6 gallons of beer wouldn’t be uniform when heating/cooling and that some areas of the fermenter would get much warmer/colder that the beer in contact with the probe.
When you are making yeast starters for your lagers, should the starter be room temperature or lager temperature?
Definitely. In fact, I usually pitch my lager starters around 70F, let them go 24-48 hours, pull some off for later, then crash overnight and decant before pitching, allowing the starter to get to the same temp as my lager wort (48F).
How clear are your starters after you crash overnight? Although mine usually have a tight cake after 48 hours, the starters are usually still slightly hazy and I always have an internal dialogue when I’m pouring it off.
They’re not bright, but sort of clear, never had an issue.
Think of it this way: you’re not trying to make tasty beer when you’re making a starter, you’re trying to juice the yeast for optimal growth. Warmer is better for growth, just make sure to decant the beer off the starter before pitching.
There is no mention, should we assume you do not secondary this lager?
I don’t “secondary” anything I don’t plan to bulk age for longer than 4-6 months, except sours. With this method, there is only a single transfer– primary to keg. Cheers!
Nice work – I assume I could use this technique when bottle conditioning and instead of racking to keg, would bottle and allow to come up to room temperature to allow carbonation to occur. Then chill and drink after 2-3 weeks??
Exactly.
For those interested in the episode of The Session on The Brewing Network mentioned in the article I tracked it down:
* The Sunday Session: Don Russell – Philly Beer Week – http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/971
* Starts at 1:35:00
* Ends at 2:13:00
I just tried your lager method for a Czech Lager I brewed on May 27th, and I was impressed by the results right out of the primary fermenter. Presently, the beer still has 5 days of conditioning in the keg before I reach the end of the schedule, but the results are impressive thus far.
There’s a touch of yeastiness on the first pour, but I expect that to clear up by the end of the week during subsequent pours; I suspect that’s from my racking method and not the schedule. I’m still very giddy to have a lager turn around in just under a month. Thanks for the temp schedule, and I’m excited to try it with something maltier like a dunkel.
Kudos on the Yeast Bay sponsorship. Would love to trade something for those yeasts if you’re interested.
Yeah, that yeastiness will definitely clear up over the next few days, it’s also sort of a function of the flocculation properties of the yeast you used– WLP830 and WLP833 tend to drop out rather quickly.
I’m all for trading… but with the TYB stuff, I’m not at liberty to do so, per the boss 😉
I brewed a Schwarzbier (recipe from brewing classic styles) using your method. Kegged it over the weekend and tasted it last night to check the level of carbonation. The results are excellent. No off flavors. This was also my first time kegging so I was a little nervous of the results, but everything turned out great. I will be brewing an Oktoberfest to try this method with a lighter color beer soon. Thanks for the detailed schedule.
Fantastic! Be sure to let us all know how the Oktoberfest turns out, too!
Last night I kegged up a Helles using WLP860 Munich Helles that I made using this method – I brewed it on May 31. This was the fifth batch I’ve done with this yeast (I repitched), and the first one that didn’t have noticeable sulfur, diacetyl and yeast haze at the time of kegging.
For me, with this yeast, the sulfur, diacetyl and haze drop out and clean out over a period of about 3-4 weeks of lagering – I recently won a gold and silver for a Rauchbier and Helles which were a mess when I kegged them. This time, though, it’s bright, crisp, and lacks the butter and sulfur.
My normal lager fermentation method isn’t too different from this – pitch at 45, raise to 55 over 2 days, hold there for 10 days, raise up to 70 for 2 days, then crash down to 32 for a week. That technique worked really well for WLP838 (Southern German), 833 (Bock), and 802 (Budejovice), but the 860 seems to be a little more finicky, and doesn’t like that schedule so much. (I’ve never had diacetyl or sulfur issues with those other lager yeasts.)
I’m guessing that the early temperature ramp to diacetyl rest temperature, followed by the slower chilling down to 32F must be the difference. Definitely going to use this technique again on my lagers!
Amazing technique im doing it now with my Oktoberfest, cant wait to see how it turns out.
Not to nitpick but your also not taking into account the time it takes to ramp from fermentation temps to D-Rest temps, you just say +2 days when its really a min of +4(two days to get the low 50’s->65 and then another 2 at 65).
Planning to try this method over the weekend on a Helles. Cooking up a starter of WLP838 tonight. Looking forward to it. Thanks for posting the method and maintaining a great blog. I’ll update later with my results. Cheers.
Looking forward to your results!
Just thought I’d report back to say that the Helles has come out really tasty. I followed the schedule pretty closely. I racked it after 14 days and tapped it after about 10 days. It was good then, but it’s been in the kegerator for just over two weeks now and it has really hit its stride. Strange that just those 4-5 days made such a difference but they did. Anyway, very clean fermentation and a really nice beer. It’s not 100% crystal clear yet, but it’s pretty damn close to that. Only major change for next time is that I’ll probably give it at least a full two weeks in the kegerator before tapping. That’s just personal preference though – not a criticism of your posted method.
Anyway, thanks for sharing this. I’ll most definitely be using it again – probably for my next batch. Consider me a believer.
Also, I forgot to ask – what yeast did you use on that crystal-clear-after-20-days Dortmonder you have pictured above? That’s impressive.
Thanks.
10 gallon split batch, half hit with WLP830 German Lager and the other half fermented with WLP833 German Bock Lager. I’ve used other strains as well and they all seem to clear up the same way. One thing I believe is key for getting clear beer is to make sure the calcium levels in your brewing liquor are ~70+ ppm.
Thanks for the reply. Planning to try another lager with WLP838 next weekend so I’ll bump up the Calcium a bit more. Appreciate your time. Cheers.
I have not brewed a lager for the reasons you state in the beginning of the article…. time. I think I will use this idea and method to brew almost the same recipe I always use for my Falconers Flight IPA but instead lager it with this method and see how it works as an IPL…. Thoughts ? The cold crashing may pull the hop aroma down but a dry hop can fix that 3-4 days prior to bottling…
I cold crash all of my IPAs and they remain very aromatic. I’m not a huge fan of this “IPL” thing, but I like your thinking, I say go for it!
I’ll be bottling, should I use a secondary at all or should I go directly to the bottling bucket
I don’t use a secondary… that’s what I’d recommend
I do something very similar in terms of ferment temps but instead of doing a cold crash before kegging, I rack the semi-cleared beer into a keg first and then cold crash it. After 24h I fine the beer with isinglss (so not reinheitsgebot friendly) and immediately force carbonate. After 48 hours @ ~30F I bring beer up to serving temperature. I feel like I’m cheating but the beers just come out so clean I cannot come up with a good reason to ever lager a lager again 🙂
Sounds good to me!
Hi, I greatly enjoy your blog and have started brewing lagers in the last 6 months or so. I have 4 batches of about 1.050 beers under my belt using this method that have turned out great, with a 5th currently in the fermenter (a doppelbock). I plan on trying a slightly modified version of this schedule for the doppelbock, with each of the phases extended a bit to account for a slower fermentation. Have you brewed any higher gravity lagers with this method? If so, any observations or tips? Thanks, and keep up the good work!
I actually haven’t brewed any higher OG beers using this method. It is already drawn out a little longer than other quick lager methods, I think it’d work fine for a Doppelbock, but I’m sure your extended version will do the trick as well. Cheers!
Just wanted to update for anyone thinking of trying this on a bigger lager – It seems to work pretty well. I’ve drawn out the schedule a few days for each phase, so right now I’m on the 13th day after pitching, and the last day of resting at 65f, tomorrow I’ll start the cold crash. My measured SG is right around 1.020 (OG was 1.073), so right where I wanted to end up! Took a sample that was very tasty as well, and already fairly clean even before cold crashing. It has a little more cleaning up to do but I was planning on lagering this one for a month or more anyway. Still much better than the 4-6+ months you generally see suggested for doppelbocks.
I’m planning on brewing a lager using this method and an ale as well. Unfortunately, I only have one keezer/ferm chamber. Would you recommend starting the lager first, ramp up to mid 60’s, and then brewing/starting the ale while it is in the 60’s? Just curious about how long the lager can sit in the mid 60’s before cold crashing (I typically do ~2 weeks fermentation for all the ales I’ve done). Thanks!!
I’ve never done that, but I don’t see why it wouldn’t work… really well, actually. If you do it, please shoot me an email and let me know how it goes!
Hi. When pitcing, what temp is the yeast at? Room temp?
Hi
When pitching your starter. Is that at room temperature?
I always crash and decant my lager starters, so it’s always much cooler than room temp, probably close to 45F or so.
Have you ever used this method on a high gravity lager? if so how well did it work?
I don’t make many high gravity beers, but I know a few guys who have used this method on Doppelbock and it worked just fine.
Really enjoy your articles. I am using your quick larger method now with my black box. Very excited to give this a try in a few weeks
Nice! I’ve got 2 lager starters going right now myself 🙂
I did an 1.074 Oktoberfest yesterday and double-pitched WLP820. Been reading about the problems some people are having with this yeast (seem that some guys love it and some hate it’s slow nature). I was thinking of using your lager method, do you think I’ll be okay using this yeast?
I’ve never used this yeast, but I have a buddy who made a great Ofest with it last year using the quick lager method, it worked just fine. He also pitched a hefty starter. Assuming ~75% viability in your vial (December expiration), YeastCalculator.com recommends nearly 600bil cells for a 1.074 lager… if by “double-pitched” you mean you used 2 vials with no starter, that’s a pretty significant underpitch. Hopefully there isn’t too long of a lag and fermentation kicks off without a hitch.
Food for thought… Not having much time to devote to a starter this time around, I was hoping that pitching two vials would be enough. I guess I could go pick up another one and get a starter going, and if it doesn’t kick off in the next couple of days, I could repitch with the starter. Think that’d be the way to go? I have it sitting at 55º currently, and haven’t seen activity since I pitched last night—not that I expected to see anything this early. Open to your advice.
I’m sort of compelled to believe “more is better than less,” particularly with lager yeast. I mean, the beer is going to ferment, the issue has to do with the health of that fermentation. If it were me, I would be fine throwing in more yeast; by the time you make a starter, it’s likely fermentation will already be active and through the lag and growth phases.
So… Just so I understand, should I take the time to do a starter now, or just pitch another vial (or two) of 820?
If it were me, I’d toss in more yeast as soon as possible.
Thanks, I appreciate your advice!
I just made an Oktoberfest using WLP820 with this method and it came out awful – fruity and fusely. This was the second generation of that yeast, too – I made a 3 gallon batch of steam beer and pitched the slurry from that into the O’fest.
I’m thinking maybe I started the temperature ramp too soon, and that was responsible for the problems.
This is very interesting… I have a good friend who recently made an Ofest with this yeast (I believe) and he had the exact same problem, only he used a more traditional ferm schedule. Another friend had been using WLP007 for most of his beers for years, but recently started noticing some off-flavors and an almost complete lack of flocculation, even with fresh pitches. I’ve been using WLP029 for years and recently began noticing an odd off-flavor in some of my lighter beers made with that strain. I just pitched a fresh vial of WLP838 into a 3.5L starter and was forced to toss in some harvested WLP830 after 36 hours of absolutely no activity. I hate to imagine this, but I’m becoming concerned maybe White Labs is sacrificing quality during the transition to this new packaging system. Hmm…
So it’s amazing the difference a few days makes – I made those comments based on how it tasted on Thursday. I just got back in town an hour ago, and it’s much, much better. Maybe it was just un-flocced yeast I was tasting, but it’s undergone a 180-degree turnaround – the harsh fusel flavor is gone, and the fruitiness is much reduced as well. I was about ready to dump this, but now I’m going to enter it into a competition.
Still not my favorite yeast (I wanted 838, but the LHBS couldn’t get it in time), but I don’t hate it with a burning rage any more. 😀
I’m telling you, the 838 I bought was a dud… well, I think it was.
Nice work with the the blog….. Yesterday I brewed an Oktoberfest with Wyeast 2633 using this method, and can’t wait for this beer to finish, I’ll keep you posted. Keep up the good work!
Killer! I can’t wait to hear how it turns out.
Sorry for the late update… This turned out to be a great beer… By the time I wanted to bottles a six pack to send out for a few competitions the batch was gone. It was soooo goooood that I did not realized I had finished it. This is a great way to lager!!!!!!
Out of curiosity, no problems with ice forming at 30F? Or is the carboy’s internal temp warm enough at point to go a few days before dropping below 32?
With the probe measuring ambient, I’ve never had an issue with freezing. If I were to keep the probe attached, I’d probably crash the beer to 33°F to be safe.
So far this seems to be working great, need to take a gravity reading tonight. Should be able to keg it by Thursday according to my calendar, but we have a huge club brew festival this weekend so I doubt I rack this or my Belgian to a keg until sometime next week.
This should sway me to do more lagering i the future. Thanks for all the effort for us sheeple 😛
Ah, good to know. Thanks. I just converted a fridge into a lager tank and wanted to make sure I wasn’t going to start freezing my wort accidentally. I actually just started a pilsner last week and I’m going to try this method starting tonight since I’m already done with the majority of the primary fermentation.
Brewed an Oktoberfest using this method and it has turned out to be smooth, light, and delicious. I’d highly recommend this lagering method.
Made an Oktoberfest with this method and it turned out fabulous!
I found out the hard way today that while lagering and using a blow off tube/bucket… when you ramp down the temp there is negative pressure in the primary and it sucks all of the sanitizer in the blow off bucket back into the beer…… whoops. I’m still drinking it anyways. 🙂 For future reference, use a bubbler once the main action has stopped.
I’m on day 3 of the 65* schedule and after testing the SG I’m only at 57% attenuation. I thought I made a big enough starter but with an OG of 1.078 maybe I was low. Should I have tested before ramping up? Should I leave it at 65* till I get better attenuation? This is my first layer and my first attempt at this schedule, I could use some tips. Thanks a bunch, and great work.
I might suggest giving the fermentor a gentle swirl to kick some of that yeast back into suspension, I’m usually 60-80% attenuated after 4 days at 50°F and the warmer temps only serve to encourage better attenuation. Are you still seeing action in the airlock? What yeast did you end up going with? Did you oxygenate your wort?
I gave it a swirl, and the airlock is still going. I used WLP833 and I think I oxygenated well enough. I had a 24hr lag time that’s why I think it’sy starter size. Do you think sitting at 65* is my best option? Next time I’ll test before ramping.
Any damage would already be done at this point, if it were me I’d let it ride at 65° and try to get it to completely attenuate.
Trying this out with an Oktoberfest (first time doing a lager), I pitched on Monday evening and fermentation just started up yesterday (was checking attenuation). Would you say go 5 days from yesterday then? Or if I’m at ~50% come Sunday then start ramping up anyway?
One other question, I’m doing primary in a corny keg with a blow off, for cold crashing would you say just take that off, or take it off and run a low amount of co2 to fill into the keg as it cools?
Thanks!
Hmm… if I fermented in the corny and planned to serve from that same keg, I’d probably seal it up and purge with CO2 for the cold crash portion. I’ve never done that, though, so this is my uninformed opinion.
This is an excellent post. You are single handedly responsible for me trying my first lagers. I closely followed these directions and will be bottling an Oktoberfest and Smoked Schwarzbier tomorrow. Can’t wait to see how they turned out!
Do you have any experience bottling and carbing with sugar with a lager? It seems to me that, using this method, there will still be enough healthy yeast in there to prime up a bottle. But, I’m still a bit worried about ending up with a bunch of flat beer. If I was to re-pitch yeast, is there anything I should be careful of? Will just tossing a packet of S-05 into the beer before bottling do the trick? I don’t want to over-carb either!
I’ve bottle-conditioned lagers that transferred to secondary and then lagered for a month, and had no problem with them carbonating. I’d recommend letting them carb up at room temperature, as it does take longer since there’s not as much yeast in there. But with this method, you’ll probably be just fine.
I’ve never done that, but I know folks who have (without adding more yeast) and it works just fine. I’ve bottle conditioned beers that were months in primary without adding yeast at bottling and they carb’d up beautifully.
Excellent. Thanks for the tips, guys!
An update.
I bottled my shcwarzbier and oktoberfest tonight. Holy cow. SO good. Both of them. I could easily just drink pints of them flat straight out of the carboy. And, from what I read here, they only get better with a few weeks bottle conditioning! Consider me sold. Can’t wait to brew a lot of lagers!
Awesome! Now I’m thirsty… and it’s 4am…
Just an update that I recently kegged a BitBurger clone with this method and it was absolutely phenomenal. In fact, I’m pretty sure this is the best lager I’ve ever had.
Would you happen to have the BlackBoxBrew ST1000+ planning spreadsheet for your method?
Checkout the bottom of this post, let me know if that doesn’t help. Cheers!
I’ve mostly stayed away from lagers exactly because of the main reason you mention, the amount of time it ties up my fermenter and fermentation fridge for. But my next beer will be a lager, using this approach. I keep coming back to your blog and finding all sorts of great knowledge. Gotta say it’s one of the best brewing blogs I’ve come accross, it’s ‘the MythBusters of homebrewing’!
Cheers,
Aidan (http://beerandgarden.com)
I recently attempted this method on a Maibock i just started when this blog was fwd to me.
Followed all instructions to the “T” except for being able to hold @ 30 degrees. My mini fridge could only hold about 33 degrees. I did let it sit a few extra days at this temp and added gelatin before adding carbonation. Flavor is amazing! No heavy sulpher aroma at all.
Only downside is it’s not nearly as clear as your dortmunder. However, given the fact that i am enjoying this beer MONTHS before i thought i would; i don’t really care if its not crystal clear.
Thanks for passing this info along. i look fwd to brewing more lagers!!!!!!!!
Do you think it would be alright to keep the beer at 65 for a couple of days extra before ramping down.. Need the chamber at 65 for a IPA a couple of days..
Absolutely! Won’t hurt a thing.
Sweet. What du u think of starting the whole ale fermentation program when the lager diactyl is ready? Thx for reply and best beer site.
Do it! 😉
If I were going to use gelatin to help additional clarification at what point in your process should I add it?
I plan to start using gelatin, throwing it in just before cold crashing in the carboy.
Brulosopher, I just brewed a Sam Adams Boston Lager, and started fermenting using your method… I pitched a 2L starter of W34/70 dry yeast on tuesday at 48f and set my freezer to 51f. It is still on lag and growth phase. Do I have to count the first 5 days since I pitched the yeast or do I have to count it since I see any active fermentation?
Also, I would like to know your opinion about lagering at 41f. I have a large freezer with many kegs at 41f and I do not want to move all my freezer to 32f just to lager this new beer.
Thanks for all your post!
Count from the time you pitched. 41F will work fine, it just might take a little longer to drop bright. Cheers!
Hi Kenneth,
How it turned out your sam adams boston lager?
I’m curious as I’ve made a 5 gallons german pilsner last 15th november with w34/70 Fermentis dry yeast (3 packets, rehydrated) wtih this method. Today, transfered to Keg for carbonation. Flavor: fruity?!!?
Cheers,
Luis
I’m planning a Maibock at the moment and would like to give this a go. I’ll be bottle aged for a while, but I’d like to get the fermentation done in 3 weeks and free up the chamber for something else. Have you tried this with any 6-7% strength beers?
I did a 5.8% (iirc) Dortmunder Export, it worked great, and I know plenty of folks who have made even higher OG lagers with no problems using this method. Just make sure you pitch a healthy dose of viable yeast and you should be good to go!
Hi,
Recently made a Marzen with w34/70 yeast (500mL slurry), pitched at 6C, fermented at 8C and ramped up to 16C when reached 50% apparent attenuation. Result: honest.
Thinking about attenuation and apparent attenuation: what do you mean with the “50% attenuation” number?
Cheers,
Luis
Just to ensure the yeast is out of the growth phase, I isually just go by time.
Ok. I understand the rationale.
In other words, when you start ramping temperature at 5th day, are you still in high kraeusen?
Cheers
Denny turned me on to this process and your blog. Great information. I tried it on my Helles and found it work fantastic. Its a practical idea that defies what we all thought we knew, and that’s a good thing.
Fantastic! I’m so glad it worked well for you.
Have you ever used this technique with dry lager yeast?
I used dry on my last lager months ago. Turned out great. Will lager more with this profile for sure.
I just tried it with a single packet of W34/70 in a 3-gallon batch of Dortmunder. Came out very clean, malty, and delicious.
Did you rehydrated the w34/70 at 23C and conditioned the temperature afterwards?
I’ve recently done a pils with Mangrove Jacks M84 Bohemian Pilsner diied yeast. I did deviate slightly from this method. I had read on forums about notorious lag time for M84 when pitched cold so I rehydrated a single packet and and pitched it at 17C and held it at that temp for about 12 hours until I started to notice some fermentation activity. Then I slowly dropped to fermentation temp of 11.5C. I was wondering if I would get any off flavors from the warmer pitching and possibly under-pitching but it came out very clean and I only have it bottle carbed for a week. I plan to stick some of the bottles into the fridge to continue lagering to see if that makes any improvements. I will definitely be taking this approach again when I do lagers.
I rehydrated it around 85F, then put it in my kegerator (40F) overnight and pitched into 45F wort after aerating with a drill/paint-stirrer.
Thx for the input on lager/ipa questions.. Both beers ended up awsume.. Had my lager turned up to 18c for 3days after lager fermentation was sort of done. So the ipa started strong. Then ramped both beers to 21c.. Cold crashed them after a couple of days with gelatin.. Crystal clear lager. No need for extra yeast while bottle condition.. Just took a teaspoon of yeast from primary while racking to bottling bucket.. Thx for ur great site.
What if I was doing an IPL and the recipe calls for a traditional cold age at 35F for 5-6 weeks with dry hopping the last 10 days. Anyone have experience with this?
I’d use the same schedule, adding the dry hop charge the day before crashing the temp, and I certainly wouldn’t leave the beer on dry hops for 10 days.
Thanks. One other question, you say “Rack cold (and usually very clear) beer to kegs, put kegs in kegerator/keezer on gas, leave for a week, serve! (+7 days = 24 days)”
What temp are you keeping the beer at for 1 week under gas?
Gret question! I keep my keezer at 46F.
I like your thinking very much and your process. I’ve been doing some research and I am hoping to try to get away with an even simpler process. Would you let me know if you see any potential issues please? ..and Thanks!
I’m hoping to avoid ramping temperatures up and down gradually. My thought is that by adjusting the ambient temperature of the keezer, the beer will naturally take it’s time to change temperature, and I’m hoping that will be slow enough for the yeast. Final cold crashing can apparently be as fast as you like anyway because with this kind of method you are done with the yeast at that stage, since you are cold conditioning rather than lagering.
Grew Noonan’s book (making lager beer) is really good for the science behind lagering. There’s a really good link here also http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Fermenting_Lagers
Here’s what I plan to try:
1) Whirlpool chill wort as usual down to about 18C (that’s as low as I can get with my tap water), then splash (for some extra O2) into kegs with dip tubes shortened by 1 ½”. Add two sachets of 34/70 dry yeast in each keg at same time (like a local commercial brewer I know does, chuck it in dry once there’s some wort in the keg and continue filling).
2) Put kegs in a keezer with ambient set at 9C for 9 days of primary fermentation with blow off tubes hooked to connectors on the gas posts.
3) Reset the keezer ambient temperature to 18C for 5 days for diacetyl rest plus finish up fermentation.
4) Remove blow off tubes, hook up CO2 and purge head space.
5) Crash to 1-2C and force carb at that temp. for 1 week.
6) Serve or bottle with Blichmann gun (3 weeks grain to glass).
Thanks,
Mark from Canada.
Ps. Sorry noticed a few typos. Also …9C = 48F, 18C = 64F and 1C = 34F
I know of folks who have made lager beer simar to the way you plan to do it and it has worked well. Im pretty certain you won’t need blowoff tubes, but whatever works!
Thanks very much. I’ve just noticed Fermentis recommend an ideal fermentation temperature of 12-15°C (53.6-59°F) for Saflager w-34/70 dry yeast (http://www.fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/SFG_W34pdf.pdf). That goes against everything I’ve read for making lager beers. What temperature do you think I should go for during the initial phase with this yeast?
I might use a blow off tube for the initial brew, just so I can see the fermentation activity by the bubbles, from then on I could simply leave the safety valve on the keg open? Or did you have another suggestion.
Thanks for your help with this. I’m going to give it a go with a bohemian pilsner …”Pilsner Myquell” 🙂
Mark
I’ve use 34/70 a few times, 48-50˚F works great!
Re-reading the link I posted, I guess that’s close (but not close enough) to the “warm fermentation method” what do you think of that?
“the warm fermentation uses a pitching temperature of 46 *F (8 *C) and a maximum fermentation temperature of 50 – 54 *F (10 – 12 *C). This should however not be confused with warm vs. cold pitching. There is no warm pitching in commercial German lager fermentation.”
“I’ve use 34/70 a few times, 48-50˚F works great!”
Thanks.
What maximum temperature do you go during fermentation, at diacetyl rest?
I usually ramp it up to 68F for a few days, but I’d be comfortable taking it up to 72F.
Will this work with a dopplebock?
I’ve heard it will, never tried it myself.
This is great. I largely gave up on lagers because they just took too long. I’m actually trying this method out right now with a pilsner, so far so good. My question is whether you account for fermentation lag in the steps between initial fermentation and the D-rest. My pilsner took a good 4-5 days to take off because I used dry yeast (2 packets per 5G) and my experience shows it generally takes longer to start with dry than a good starter with liquid yeast. I’m currently extending my initial stage by 4-5 days to account for this, but curious if you think it’s necessary? (I would think so?) Thanks for the method, looking forward to getting getting back into some great lagers!
That’s a good point, Jeff. I would say it’s probably a good idea to account for lag, at least when it’s 4-5 days, as the ideas is to achieve 50-80% attenuation before you start ramping temps. You could always take a hydro sample to make sure. Cheers!
Just a quick follow up here. Finished the pilsner in about 30 days using this method, cleared up right nice after 7 days in the keg. Overall, I really like the method and will continue to use it…but, I would say, that beers that *need* the lagering for flavor probably still need some time at low temps above and beyond the schedule here. (I kind of expected this anyway, so no surprises there.) Still, I’m convinced this method can get you better than 75% “there” within a month, so kudos to opening an entire world of lagering options back up for me! Thanks again and looking forward to the next!