Author: Marshall Schott
I spend quite a lot of time these days responding to questions and comments from readers about a wide range of things. I try to be as thorough as possible, but it can be difficult given how busy I stay with other stuff. That’s where this idea came from, an article addressing some of the most common concerns, questions, and comments that come up, presented in interview form. My goal is to be as unabashedly honest as possible and respond in a sort of stream-of-consciousness way. While everything in this article was taken from real life, I’ve no intention to call anyone out but rather provide more detailed responses, hence no identifying links or names will be shared. Alright, let’s get to it!
Thus, the task is not so much to see what no one yet has seen, but to think
what nobody yet has thought about that which everybody sees.
~ Erwin Schrödinger ~
What is your homebrewing background?
I bought a standard starter kit in January of 2003, brewed an Irish Red Ale extract with steeping grains batch with my roommate, liked it, then made another 8 or so batches before I got married in July of 2004. I moved to California for graduate school, brewed a few batches with friends during those 5 years, then jumped back into the hobby like a maniac as soon as I bought a house. I’ve since brewed over 400 batches of beer and cider, most of which have had some experimental component.
How did you get interested in experimenting with brewing and beer?
I’ve always questioned things, curiosity is a part of my nature, and I’ve a particular interest in the human tendency to accept things as fact in the absence of evidence. In every aspect of my life, for better or worse, I dig until I can’t stop digging, refusing to believe something based on someone else’s often 
anecdotal experience. In homebrewing, many claims exist that I had difficulty finding evidence beyond someone’s self-report to support, and so for fun, I started testing it out. Since the beginning, my aim has purely been to experience for myself the differences caused by certain process variables, ingredients, and even equipment. The fact so many things I staunchly believed to be important haven’t had the expected impact has surprised me as much as anyone else, as well as inspire me to continue experimenting, because to me there can never be enough evidence, science doesn’t give up, and I certainly don’t plan to either.
So, what’s the point?
To have fun while learning about brewing and beer! Plus, I find immense value in feeling productive, and Brülosophy has definitely increased my feeling of productivity.
What do you hope others get out of it?
Whatever it is they want to get out of it, I guess. For some, that might be simple brewing infotainment while others might look to our results to inform their own practices. We’ve made it a point to caution people against accepting xBmt findings as the final answer, as it’s always possible something else is at play, hence the importance of replication. But also, I’m pretty adamant about Brülosophy not being viewed as an authority on brewing, the place people go looking for answers, which often times aren’t static. Because this is just beer, I don’t get too caught up in shit I have no control over including people occasionally misusing our data.The way I see it, the types of folks willing to try the less conventional methods we test out are probably okay with the risk and may even enjoy the more experimental aspect. Also, they are adults who can think and make decisions for themselves.
Are you okay with the fact Brülosophy is ruining the hobby of homebrewing?
If by “ruining” you mean influencing some people to actually think about the methods they use, make decisions based on evidence and experience rather than an appeal to authority or tradition, and perhaps step outside of the box to potentially move the hobby in a novel and fun direction, than yeah, I suppose I’m fine with it. But I call that growth, which is a great thing in my eyes, far better than the alternative of stagnancy.
How valid are your results?
How valid are the many individual anecdotal reports most of us have based our brewing methods on? We may not have sterile labs, but we approach each xBmt in about as neurotically as possible for “real world” researchers, trying our hardest to limit the impact of extraneous variables at all points in the process. The triangle test is the industry standard when it comes to sensory analysis and the statistical equation has been shown to be powerful enough for our typical samples sizes. So, sure, I think our findings carry at least a moderate degree of validity, which isn’t to say I think they ought to be accepted as truth. And honestly, my goal isn’t to convince anyone of anything, so it doesn’t hurt my feelings if others choose to disregard our findings. So it goes.
How do you deal with people who are vocal in their negative view of Brülosophy?
I don’t really have an issue with them. While it’s easy enough to ignore and move on, I fear missed opportunities and tend to engage even the haters. I may get a little snarky at times, but I generally try to keep things as respectful as possible. If I’m being totally 
honest, I actually find some of the arguments against what we’re doing kind of entertaining. I’ve probably typed this out over a thousand times now, but my favorite thing about homebrewing is the community and, like any community, this one includes people with vastly different perspectives and opinions. We’re going to disagree because we’re different, and I don’t see anything wrong or bad about that.
What have you changed as a direct result of the xBmts?
Not much, really. I no longer worry about kettle trub making it into my fermentor, though I don’t transfer a bunch of it on purpose, just whatever hasn’t settled out once I’m done chilling. I pay way more attention to my brewing water and make adjustments based on the style of beer I’m making. If I’m in a rush, I don’t have any issues reducing my mash or boil lengths, though I usually stick with 60 minutes to keep the brew day a little less hectic. What seems to surprise people is the fact I ferment most of my lagers these days with Saflager W-34/70 at 66°F/19°C using my standard ale fermentation schedule. While I still consider it exBEERimental in nature, I must say I’ve been beyond pleased with the results so far!
Do you still use the quick lager method?
Not so much. I have no problems changing my mind or methods in light of new evidence, to me it’s what makes being a human so fun. Because of this, I rarely use the quick lager method anymore, I don’t see a point if the beers I turnaround in 10 days fermenting warm are indistinguishable from those that take over a week longer when fermented cool.
And what of using WLP029 German Ale/Kölsch yeast for mock lagers?
I think it’s a great yeast that may even produce a unique character, but I’ve not used it in quite awhile, as my whole reason for selecting it was because of how clean the beers it was used to ferment came out. Since my experience is that W-34/70 is equally as clean, even when fermentated at warmer temperatures, I’ve been sticking with it.
Have you any respect for tradition?!
Of course I do! If it weren’t for the brewers of yore, we wouldn’t be where we’re at today. What’s striking to me is the fact the very people known for developing many of the methods we use today were the ones questioning the tradition of their time! Would anybody today argue that their efforts didn’t move brewing in a newer and better direction? I doubt it, so why stop now? What if the brewers we look up to today hadn’t experimented with what were conventional methods back then? We know so much about beer and brewing because of the hard work of those who came before us, they laid a path I refuse to believe has reached its endpoint. In fact, I feel we owe it to them to keep up with what they started!
Are there any xBmt results you’ve seriously questioned or think may have been wrong?
I’d say I’ve seriously questioned the results of more xBmts than I haven’t, but that’s only because most have gone against a belief I held. Considering all 100+ xBmts we’ve completed, the ones I have the most difficult time accepting, based on a combination of dogma and my own personal experience tasting the beers, are those suggesting different types of fermentation vessels produce a perceptual difference in beer. It just seems so inconsequential to me, yet two xBmts on the variable have produced significant results. Of course, this only makes me want to repeat these xBmts multiple times to see if the results can be replicated.
Do you have a particularly favorite xBmt?
I think they’re all pretty interesting, though if I had to choose one that caused me to rethink my brewing dogma most, it’d have to be the first water chemistry xBmt. I was admittedly doubtful the relatively small amounts of minerals and acid brewers adjust their water with made much of a difference in the final product, to the point I’d even stopped worrying about it in my own brewing. Imagine my surprise when, first, I was easily able to identify a difference between the water chemistry xBmt beers, and second, my experience was confirmed by the results. These days, I adjust the water for every batch, tending to stick with only gypsum, calcium chloride, and lactic acid, occasionally using a touch of slaked lime to add alkalinity.
What are your thoughts on the commercial craft beer scene?
As a lover of beer, I think it’s great that more breweries are popping up and more people are drinking beer! Unfortunately, I’ve tasted quite a few beers from new breweries that don’t seem to be as quality-minded as others, which sucks… for them and us.
Do you have any favorite professional breweries?
I can be found at least once a week at my local watering hole, House Of Pendragon Brewing, sipping on my buddy Tommy’s delicious concoctions. I’m also a huge fan of everything I’ve ever had from Chuckanut Brewing in Bellingham, WA, which sadly I can’t get in my area. If I had to choose beer from a well known commercial brewery to take to a deserted island with me, it’d definitely be from Firestone-Walker Brewing, they’ve honestly never made a beer I didn’t like.
If you could only drink one beer for the rest of your life, what would it be?
That’d suck. Given my penchant for lager, I’d go with something like Chuckanut’s Helles Lager. It is such a delicious, thirst quenching, and easy drinking beer. If it had to be something I brewed, probably my latest simplified Vienna Lager made with 97% Vienna Malt and 3% Pale Chocolate. Endlessly crushable.
What are your favorite podcasts that aren’t brewing related?
As a huge fan of the first season of Serial (season 2 was okay), I’ve been completely hooked on the new Accused podcast about an unsolved murder of woman some 30 years ago. I’m also all caught up on Reply All, Radiolab, This American Life, Surprisingly Awesome, and Criminal.
Final question: what are the last 5 songs you listened to?
I get asked about my music preferences way more than I expected. Without shame, the last 5 songs I listened to were (song | artist | record)…
- Pillars | Sunny Day Real Estate | How It Feels To Be Something On
- Teardrops | David Bazan | Blanco
- Power Of Love | Huey Lewis And The News | Greatest Hits
- Sara Smile | Hall & Oates | The Very Best Of
- Magazine | Pedro The Lion | Control
Hopefully this cleared some things up for those who wondered. Feel free to ask more questions or give me shit in the comments section below!
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58 thoughts on “Clearing The Air | Addressing Common Concerns, Questions, and Comments”
Maybe I don’t read all the comments closely enough, but who can hate on Brulosophy? It’s not like you’re saying anything truly controversial.
Data that questions dogma is viewed as controversial by those who adhere to said dogma. We make it a point not to be provocative and let the data speak for itself.
Note hate really, but there has been some (quite silly) negative sentiments from some of the LoDO high priests. Like in this discussion thread (after a few pages): http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=580532
Very interesting reading, lot of well read people. Heavy on the hard science, but not the perception end of things (But I’m only about 18 pages in). Some of the criticisms are well founded, but it just makes me think of the difference between the field & lab in my work. I’m looking forward to reading more XBMT’s. And reading dissenting opinions.
Naturally carbing in the keg seems a lot more enticing now, although I probably won’t fill my kegs with boiling water to sterilize them.
Can I ask a question about your ale-temp lagers? At what point post-kegging are they ideal? I bottle, and don’t have a fridge in which I can keep all of my beer, and I’ve found that after allowing three weeks for carbonation it still takes maybe a month before everything is crisp and lager-like, even better with another ten days in the fridge. That’s basically two months post-bottling. Is it safe to assume you’re enjoying it inside of two weeks post-kegging?
Keep up the good work.
Definitely! I’m usually drinking mostly clear beer a couple days after kegging, crystal clear just a few days later.
I was going to say “man, I gotta convince my wife that I need a keezer ” but I just cracked open my last ale-temp lager 3 weeks post-bottling (Pilsner with Sterling hops) and holy shit if it isn’t already the best beer I’ve ever made! Thanks for that series of life-changing exbeeriments!
You’re probably already familiar with it if you listen to radio lab, but their spin off, More Perfect, is also quite excellent.
Yep, love that show!
Haters? Ruining homebrewing? Why would anyone object to testing much of the tribal knowledge that permeates this wonderful hobby?
Because it doesn’t support their beliefs. It’s pretty common. And yeah, being accused of ruining homebrewing, by more than 1 person, was a good one.
Your standard response should be, ” I eagerly await the results of your own unbiased, blind test.” 😉
In fact, I often encourage others to repeat the experiments they say are “flawed” in a more controlled manner. Hasn’t happened yet…
Some brewers are kind of “religious” in their beliefs about how it should be done and any questioning sets them off. Not a lot but I have run into a few.
Personally I love these experiments. When I started brewing the info was sooooo bad. I have a book that describes hops as optional and uses about 50% sugar. Ingredients were dodgy at best and the combo got people into lots of voodoo habits because it worked for them. Then those things got passed on and sometimes mixed up with some info from mega brewers and you had a lot of just awful info and “best practices” being passed off as hard rules.
It got a lot better but even books like How to Brew (a really good book) is still more about how best to do XYZ and doesn’t really do much of “is XYZ something a home brewer needs to do”. It’s only in the last few years where there has been a fair amount of real questioning of what home brew best practices actually are best practices.
Keep up the great work!
Check out Truth and Justice and Undiclosed podcast.
I listened to about 5 episodes of Undisclosed before unsubscribing. I’ll look into the other one!
Cannot completely agree on “…the statistical equation has been shown to be powerful enough for our typical samples sizes”. I think that a 40 % correct identification rate should be statistically significant, which it is typically not. It is not a strong potential effect, but it is still practically significant i.m.o.
My computer screen just about got a coffee shower when I read the one about you “ruining” the hobby.
I got a pretty good chuckle the first time I was accused of ruining the hobby 🙂
30 minute mashes and 30 minute boils have become my standard, with no difference perceived on any beer regardless of style compared to the 60/60 method.
As a major Brulosophy fanboy (I am constantly pointing out to people articles) it never occurred to me that people would hate on you guys… but then again this is the internet.
As far as I am concerned keep up the great.
I had the exact same reaction – with a little sadness too. Really enjoy Brulosophy, keep it up!
It’s just like the baseball sabermetrics movement of the last decade. Most people don’t like when you challenge what they’ve always known. Of course, there’s a very dedicated community of open minded thinkers who appreciate the work you put in, so thanks.
But do we play homebrew the “right way” that’s really the question
That was a fun article, thank you.
Keep it up man!!! I love seeing new ways to brew and to hell with tradition. If it were up to tradition we’d be drilling holes in people heads for headaches still.
And brewing without hops!
Maybe i haven’t paid attention but is it actually possible to clone commercial beers using your methods? (temp control, kegging, fining etc.)
For example could i brew a beer tasting almost exactly like a Brewdog Punk IPA if i follow their recipe book? (assuming their published recipe is correct and i can get the same quality hops /which is probably a dream/)
Well, I tend to think attempts to “clone” commercial beers is generally futile, largely because of the whole brewer’s thumbprint thing– give 20 brewers the same exact ingredients and instructions and you’ll still end up with 20 different beers.
I’m also a believer in the idea that commercial brewing methods are not necessarily the best homebrewing methods considering the volumetric differences and such.
I do think you can come pretty close to commercial examples using abbreviated methods, but if that’s a concern, go the conventional route!
I agree with your point about brewing in volume. Beers definitely turn out different. Even just scaling up from a pilot beer to a full brew on a 3 barrel brewery the difference in the finished beer is noticeable.
Do you have a link to that Vienna lager recipe? Sounds interesting!
It’s so simple:
97% Weyermann Vienna Malt
3% Pale Chocolate
~22 IBU Mittelfruh or Tettnanger @ 60 min
15 g same hop @ 15 min
Ferment with 34/70 at 66F for 3-5 days before ramping to 70F; crash to 30F and hit with gelatin after 12+ hours, keg 12+ hours after that, burst carb, and enjoy.
Great, thanks a lot! It’s on my list now.
Sorry, I forgot to ask what OG am I aiming for?
Whoops, sorry about that. I tend to shoot for 1.048 to 1.052 OG.
Thanks! Do you use just one packet of 34/70 or two? When I quick-lager I usually use two to match a lager pitch rate, does an ale pitch rate work at ale temps?
Just 1
Woohoo, I was also about to ask for this!
You mentioned you don’t do the quick lager method anymore because it takes too long and you ferment warm to save a week. Do you ferment your lagers at ale temp?
Yep, 66F to be precise, I’ve had luck with 5 strains so far: W-34/70, WLP800, WLP830, WLP833, and WLP940.
Awesome, thanks. Going to try this out with a german pils
Marshall, you’re about the nicest human on the Internet (not much competition, but still). So on you’re behalf, to anyone who thinks this blog is ruining homebrewing: go fuck yourself. If any blog is going to ruin homebrewing, it’s mine.
Podcast recs: Black Tapes, TANIS, Hardcore History
Your*. Jesus Christ, Vincent, get it together.
Underneath your tough exterior lies a tender and sensitive man, Vinny.
Ha!
Where is he? I’ll beat him up. 😉
Man, judging by some of these questions, many of my fellow readers are a**holes!
All I can say is over the past year or so I believe I’ve improved my brewing based on what I’ve read here. Thank you guys. My family thinks I brew fantastic beer but I can’t take even a quarter of that credit.
There is one technique that I refuse to give up though – De-Coc-Tion!
I’ll give you my decoction pot when you pry it from my cold, dead hands. 🙂
Is there an explanation on the site about the triangle test and how the p-values are derived?
There sort of is, but here’s a better one written by the statistician who helped me with the approach we use: http://onbrewing.com/triangle-test/
Much obliged.
Thanks for all your hard work.
I guess the people who get mad about your xbmnts shaking up conventional thought and processes in home brewing don’t look at it the way I do. I have used your xbmnts to remember to not sweat the small stuff. You’ve shown that missing my mash temp by a few degrees won’t ruin the beer. Same with sparge temps, dry hop temps, etc…
Actually, it seems to me their frustration is driven by the fact some folks use our data exactly the way you’re describing you do, which makes very little sense to me. C’est la vie, c’est la mort.
Sorry for the long post here, but I gotta expression my appreciation for what you folks do. I found this site only in the last couple of months, and in this short time, this site has become unbelievably useful for my brewing. I was making great beer before, but admittedly I adhered to conventional wisdom: No trub! Age that lager for months! Fly sparging is better than batch sparging! Always transfer to secondary! You all are doing the experiments I’d love to do, if only I had the stones. What I mean is (for example): I’ve always wanted to experiment on whether I could get away with lagering for a much shorter period of time–but what I was doing (i.e, practicing the conventional wisdom) worked well, AND I’d invested a lot of time already, so I always just stuck with the sure thing, because I knew it would turn out great. But if I experimented, well…if it didn’t turn out, I’ve just wasted a shit-ton of time. I didn’t want to risk this. But you guys take the risk, and I applaud you for it. Anyway, since I’ve discovered this site, I’ve implemented some of the practices from the xBmts, and I now brew in less time and with far less hassle and cleanup–and, most importantly, I still brew great beer. You all are doing great work here, and it’s much appreciated. (ps–I’d love to support this site financially, but for various reasons, not on a recurring, monthly basis. The ability to make one-time donations would be great.)
thank you for providing such an invaluable resource to fellow homebrewers, ive never commented before but you should know your blog has had a huge influence on improving my brewing techniques and knowledge. thanks again!
After reading this I feel compelled to offer a quick thank you and bit of praise. I also hold an advanced degree in a scientific field with an unfortunate amount of dogma, so I can really appreciate where you’re coming from. I’ve loved reading your guys’ work and it has provided me a good research paradigm and methodology for conducting my own experimentation. And, FWIW, I’ve personally never come across any hating of your work in the forums I’ve frequented. I was actually quite surprised to read that you’ve been described as ruining home brewing. But I suppose haters gonna hate, as they say. Thanks and cheers!
Thanks a lot for ruining the hobby of dogmatic home brewing.
Now I don’t get to stress about sending my beer to hell for not adhering to the straight and narrow.
Rejoice for guilt-free brew days!
I join the ranks of those amazed that people would get upset about these experiments. There’s obviously room to question the methods and the interpretation of results in particular experiments, but I don’t see how the approach is fundamentally flawed.
In a lot of ways I see this as a sibling to the historical research of guys like Ron Pattinson who have blown up a number of fables about beer by using cold facts. Some people become heavily invested in the first version of something they learned, and giving up is hard for them.
I don’t doubt that some people will have different experiences with things like fermentation temps, and every time they go into the 60s with lager yeast the taste changes. But what I think this suggests is that there are a bunch of other variables at play that still need to be understood. These experiments don’t necessarily settle every question, but they give a solid base to expand upon.