Author: Marshall Schott
Believed by many to be the single most badass organism on the planet, yeast is the magic that turns wort into beer. I often find myself pondering how blown away the brewers of yore would be by our modern knowledge of yeast and the huge impact it has on beer character. Consider the fact centuries ago, sugary liquid was left out for the gods to turn into something slightly fizzy that when consumed left the drinker feeling real nice. And here we are today with myriad pure strains isolated from classic styles to produce an entire range of flavors and aromas. Yeast is the shit!
The vast array of available strains these days is great for those of us who brew large batches but get bored easily, as it allows for the production of different beers from the same batch by splitting wort into separate fermentors and pitching different yeasts. Some of us take things a step further.
Danstar released the first dry Saison yeast back in 2012. Purported to produce classic farmhouse character in a relatively short amount of time, Belle Saison piqued the interest of many, including yours truly. For the last few months, this strain has been my go-to for simple hard cider due to its quick fermentation and simplicity of use, but I’d never used it in an actual Saison. Pining for a crisp, dry, and characterful beer for the hot days of summer, I decided the time had come to ferment a beer with this bad boy. I’ve a rather obvious obsession and considered ways I might turn this into an xBmt. Since I wasn’t sure what to expect from the Belle Saison, a yeast comparison seemed like a fine idea.
I recalled snagging a sachet of Safbrew T-58 at NHC, a yeast described as imparting “somewhat peppery and spicy flavor,” which sounded a lot like Saison to me. It wasn’t until the wort for this xBmt was chilled and sitting in carboys that I realized the yeast given to me by the fine Fermentis folks was actually Safbrew Abbaye, a trappist ale strain similar to the kind used by Belgian monks to make Dubbel, Tripel, and Quad. Not Saison.
As I thought about my mistake, I realized this would be a great way to compare 2 yeasts with subtly similar characteristics though presumably different enough for people to notice. Plus, I didn’t really have any other options. With glass half full, this xBmt was a go!
| PURPOSE |
To evaluate the differences between 2 beers produced from a split batch of the same wort and fermented with different yeasts, Danstar Belle Saison and Safbrew Abbaye.
| METHOD |
About a week prior to brewing, I used BeerSmith to design a fairly simple Saison recipe. Then a few days later, after drinking a few beers, I opened the file and completely revamped the hop schedule.
Hoppy Saison Recipe
| Batch Size | Boil Time | IBU | SRM | OG | FG | ABV |
| 11 gal | 60 min | 38 | 4.5 | 1.053 SG | 1.008 SG | 5.9% |
Fermentables
| Name | Amount | % |
| German Pils Malt | 7 lbs 4 oz | 38 |
| Domestic 2-Row | 6 lbs 12 oz | 36 |
| White Wheat Malt | 2 lbs 12 oz | 15 |
| Gambrinus Munich 10 | 2 lbs | 10 |
| Crystal/Caramel 15 | 4 oz | 1 |
Hops
| Name | Amt/IBU | Time | Use | Form | Alpha % |
| Mosaic | 18 IBU | FWH | Boil | Pellet | 12.0 |
| Simcoe | 64 g/13 IBU | 10 min | Boil | Pellet | 13.7 |
| Nelson Sauvin | 50 g/7 IBU | 10 min steep | Flameout w/ Steep | Pellet | 12.6 |
| Mosaic | 60 g (30 g each) | 4 days | Dry Hop | Pellet | 12 |
| Nelson Sauvin | 50 g (25 g each) | 4 days | Dry Hop | Pellet | 12.6 |
| Galaxy | 42 g (21 g each) | 4 days | Dry Hop | Pellet | 15 |
Yeast
| Name | Lab | Attenuation | Ferm Temp |
| Belle Saison | Lallemand/Danstar | 85% | 66°F |
| Safbrew Abbaye | Fermentis | 85% | 66°F |
I was really in the mood for something hoppy and figured the yeasts would create enough of a difference to tell them apart. Honestly, the paucity of significant xBmt results was wearing on my soul and I thought this would be a slam dunk.
As much as I appreciate the variety and quality of liquid yeasts, I really like the fact dry yeasts don’t require the making of a starter. My brew day began by waking up a little later than usual (the sun was up), hitting the flame under my kettle full of strike water, then returning with a hot cup of coffee a few minutes later and mashing in.
I targeted a mash temp of 148˚F to increase beta amylase activity in hopes of producing a dry, crisp, and super quaffable beer.
After an hourlong rest, I collected the pale, sweet first runnings, no vorlauf necessary!
With the full volume of wort collected and in my kettle, I proceeded to boil for an hour, adding hops along the way, then quickly chilled to a few degrees above my target fermentation temp.
Two 6 gallon PET carboys were filled with equal amounts of wort, which was stirred gently to ensure equal distribution of kettle trub. The full carboys were placed in my cool fermentation chamber to chill the last few degrees. I returned about 3 hours later to discover the worts had stabilized at my target temperature of 66˚F. I rehydrated both sachets of yeast in 90˚F sterile water for 15 minutes then pitched.
As often seems to be the case when I use dry yeasts, it took awhile for signs of activity, both beers were krausen-less at 24 hours. The following morning, 32 hours after pitching, things were looking mighty fine.
Fermentation progressed at about the same rate for each beer, they looked very similar by 3 days in, though the Belle Saison batch did produce a larger krausen, almost requiring a blowoff setup.
I ramped the temp in the chamber to 74˚F on day 5 to encourage complete attenuation and reabsorption of unpleasant fermentation byproducts. An initial hydrometer reading 11 days after brewing, which I took once the krausen on both beers had all but disappeared, revealed they shared a similar FG of 1.008. I allowed them to sit 2 more days before taking a confirmatory second FG reading, they were the same as before, so I cold crashed, fined with gelatin, and kegged.
I placed the filled kegs in my keezer and hit them with 40 psi of CO2 for 24 hours, after which I purged and reduced to serving pressure. While perfectly carbonated, I didn’t start collecting data for another 5 days, allowing the beers time to clear up and condition a bit. Differences in clarity were rather obvious, confirming the decision to serve participants samples in opaque cups.
| RESULTS |
Over the course of 6 days, a pool of 22 people consisting of BJCP judges, Cicerone Certified Beer Servers, experienced homebrewers, and dedicated craft beer geeks participated in this xBmt. At this sample size, 11 (p<0.05) would be required to accurately select the odd-beer-out to reach statistical significance. Each taster was blindly served 1 sample of the Belle Saison beer and 2 of the Abbaye beer then asked to identify the one that was different. In all, 12 (p=0.017) participants made the correct selection, suggesting a statistically significant difference– the beer fermented with Belle Saison was reliably distinguishable from the same beer fermented with Abbaye.
Following completion of the triangle test, those who made the correct selection were asked to complete an evaluation comparing the different beers, though the nature of the xBmt remained a secret.
AROMA
Six of the 12 tasters perceived the aromatic qualities of the beers to be not at all similar and the others believed they were somewhat similar; none thought they smelled exactly the same. In terms of preference, 8 liked the aroma of the Abbaye fermented beer and 4 preferred the aroma of the Belle Saison batch.
FLAVOR
Seven tasters thought the Belle Saison and Abbaye beers tasted somewhat similar while 5 perceived them as being not at all similar. The Abbaye beer won the preference of 9 tasters with only 3 saying they preferred the Belle Saison beer. One participant who preferred the Belle Saison beer eloquently commmented that both were “fucking delicious,” while another person perceived the Abbaye beer as being “a lot sharper.”
MOUTHFEEL
Three tasters perceived the mouthfeel of the beers to be exactly the same, 8 thought they were somewhat similar, and only 1 felt they were not at all the same. Of the 9 who experienced some similarities, 8 thought the beer fermented with Abbaye had better mouthfeel while only 1 person preferred Belle Saison.
Overall, the Abbaye beer was preferred by a shocking majority of 10 tasters, with only 2 enjoying the Belle Saison beer more. Interestingly, following revelation of the nature of the xBmt, 8 tasters accurately selected the beer fermented with Belle Saison yeast.
My Impressions: There wasn’t a point where I ever experienced these beers as not being obviously different from each other. I was accurate in multiple quasi-blind triangle tests. In fact, at one point, a couple guys attempted to test my confidence by secretly serving me 3 samples of the same beer (Abbaye), it caught me off-guard, but I eventually realized their ploy and called them out. The Belle Saison beer, to me, had a much more identifiable Saison character with a stronger hop aroma, while the Abbaye beer had noticeably less phenols, muted hop aroma, and was balanced more toward a bready malt character. Sure, I was biased by my awareness of the nature of the difference, but this is the first time in awhile I feel fairly certain I’d be able to tell these beers apart as a fully blind participant. Just typing that felt arrogant…
| DISCUSSION |
The fact 2 yeasts intended for different styles produced beers that were reliably distinguishable from each other isn’t all that surprising and confirms what most of us believe– yeast is a huge player in the beer character game. What did surprise me a bit is the number of folks who were unable to tell the beers apart, which included some very experienced craft beer drinkers. Like I mentioned earlier, I was expecting this xBmt to be a slam dunk with a huge majority of tasters accurately selecting the odd-beer-out, which wasn’t the case, significance was reached due to a single response. Still, I feel comfortable saying Belle Saison produces a beer with different character than Safbrew Abbaye.
As for the beers, I thought they were pretty damn good. I was a bit surprised to discover most people preferred the Abbaye beer, as I rather strongly preferred the batch fermented with Belle Saison. Either way, I’m stoked to use Fermentis Abbaye in a more traditional Belgian style soon, probably a Tripel I’ve got to make for a competition, as it seems to have some fantastic qualities for a super easy-to-use dry yeast. I also look forward to playing around with Belle Saison in more than just cider, I’m particularly interested to ferment it at more common Saison temps in an attempt to coax more character out of it.
If you’ve used either of these yeasts, please share your experience in the comments section below.
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38 thoughts on “Yeast Comparison: exBEERiment | Danstar Belle Saison vs. Safbrew Abbaye In A Saison”
Well that’s an interesting comparison and surprising results!
I have a Belgian Golden Strong fermenting with the Abbaye yeast for about three weeks
and it smells of sulfur since day three of the fermentation.
It started fading (or I got used to it) over the last few days but there was a time I thought
this beer will meet the drain.
Did you experience sulfur from the Abbaye strain fermentation?
No sulfur whatsoever.
I would not let it meet the drain. Sulfur compounds are volatile and will eventually dissipate from beer, especially if it is allowed to vent and kept at room temperature; thus, unless your sulfur problem is from another bug that keeps making the compounds after the yeast is done fermenting, it should clean up.
I brewed a Saison, only once, and I used the Belle Saison yeast. And I, too, ended up with a keg of sulphery Saison. But that was easily remedied by disconnecting the keg, rocking it and venting it a few times, and then putting it back on CO2.
Thanks. I’m interested in trying Abbaye. This is encouraging.
Great to read this, I just kegged my first Saison. My LHBS carried something interesting looking – Omega Labs Saisonstein’s Monster OYL-500 – and I am a huge fan of the style.
Excellent write up. Curious, did you end up dry hopping these beers?
Indeed.
I’ve used Belle Saison a couple times and have found it to be a beast. Expecting it to take a while to ferment and then seeing it chug away and finish up in just a couple days.
I just brewed a bunch of belgian styles (dubbel and tripel) and wanted to try Abbaye but had seen enough info about it so I’m excited to give it a shot now.
Have you done a S-04/WY1098/WL007 or S-05/WY1056/WL001 exbeeriment?
My understanding is that 007 isn’t in fact the same as S04. We definitely have these types of xBmts on the list!
S-04 is reportedly the Whitbread ‘sweet’ strain which is WY1099. There isn’t a WL equivalent. 1098 and 007 are Whitbread ‘dry’.
That’s what I’ve read.
I believe that WLP017 is the Whitbread sweet strain equivalent
I have trouble getting Belle Saison to stay above 1.005 during my temperature *uncontrolled* ferments. I have beers that finished out ~ 0.997/ 1.000 / 1.002 makes it very tricky to balance them against IBU when your attenuation jumps from 85 – 98% or so. I have made some very good beers with it though, and another alternative for dry saison is the Mangrove Jack belgian ale.
Haven’t tried the abbaye yeast but Belle Saison is my goto yeast for Saisons. It ferments like a monster too. I always have to use a blowoff with it. Great exbeeriment!
I LOVE Belle Saison! Definitely ferment warm, at least mid-70ss, preferably higher. I’ve gone as high as low 90s with great results. It’s also served me well for mead and wine; we are using it for a 10 bbl batch of blueberry mead at the brewery where I work, based on some I brought from home!
I might try the Abbaye soon, I’m due for another batch of a Belgian Golden Strong 🙂
I would have gone warmer if both strains were Saison 🙂
I’ve fermented Belle Saison in the high 90’s and you get a bit more saison character out of it, but it is still subdued. To me it seems to have enough of the pepper and spice I like, but lacks the fruit character.
I have a quite different experience. Fermenting in the low 70s, my first saison came out tasting like cider. Conditioning mellowed this out, but it still had a noticeable tart apple taste several months later.
I’ve used Belle Saison and Abbaye a few times, along with Westmalle and Chimay, in multiple experiments.
I have settled on the following uses, by style, for my tastes:
Belle Saison: Saison, anything you want a little tart and or peppery, mild isoamyl acetate (banana)
Chimay: Golden Strong
Abbaye: Dubble, dark strong (Note that I personally did not like chimay in dark strong, but it was darn close to Chimay Blue Label, which I also do not care for)
Westmalle: not really sure, probably lighter beers where bell saison might do, but where I don’t want the saison character.
Also of note: chimay and westmalle made a bland, poor, cider. Belle Saison made a good tart cider.
First time commenter here! I discovered your site a couple weeks ago and have read just about every xBmt and article. Good stuff, well-written and uncensored & funny to boot!
My wife and I have just started brewing. We’ve begun with NB’s 1-gallon small batch jugs. Just bottled a Pliny clone, and a Bavarian Hefeweizen is going into bottles next week. In 2 weeks we’ll bottle a honey porter and a honey ale. Already I want to jump to 5-gallon batches.
Anyway, I was thinking it would be interesting to repeat this xBmt but with 2 splits. The first 2 beers would ferment as you have done here at those temps, but the second pair would ferment at traditional saison temps, or perhaps at room temp as the saisons were traditionally made. That way we could see how the two yeasts affect the same wort at two fermentation temps.
Cheers!
Interesting that you got “just” 85% attenuation. I would expect higher from a 148 degree mash and a saison yeast. I have always used Dupont or Brasserie Thiriez (3711) (or both blended) and gotten higher attenuation. I don’t recall if they were longer and/or lower mashes, but I have usually gotten from about 1.050 to at least 1.004, sometimes lower.
Great read thanks mate!
Hi! Long-time lurker, first time poster.
As you might already know, Danstar/Lallemand also started to market a belgian-type yeast, called Abbaye as well (just to make things more confusing).
I’ve brewed two beers with both. Unfortunately, I’ve taken drastically different approaches : the beers with Danstar were more typically Belgian brews (the first was a Singel/Patersbier in the Chimay Dorée mold, although with definitely unusual ingredients for such endeavours – Canadian Pale Malt and Summer hops; the second was … Basically a Rye Dubbel), and fermented during the summer at +/- 75F. Meanwhile, the beers with Fermentis were mostly a bit less traditional (Belgian IPA, but classical, as hops used were not the ubiquitous american hops; and a Brown Stout), and fermented in late fall at temperatures around 66F.
So… It’s a bit hard to tell them apart, considering my parameters. Danstar was more estery (in a good way), but that’s probably a factor of ferm temperature. The Stout was the least attenuated, but that’s a factor of the brown Malt being very dextrinous. Every other beer finished at 1.010.
Danstar produced no sulfur whatsoever; Fermentis made WY3068 smells like roses in comparison (again, this MIGHT be a consequence of temperature, but from what I’ve heard about it, I wouldn’t bet on this). And Danstar gave a surprisingly clear beer – nowhere near S-4, but clearer than I expected.
Also, my Belle Saison beers never finished above 1.003… Even ending at 0.998 for one.
Great information, thanks for sharing!
I’ve be very unlucky with the abayye, the few times I’ve used it doesn’t give me the Belgian profile i expect.
On other matters, I made the experiment Belle vs T-58 a few months ago, in my experience (and i use the Belle saison a lot has my “house” yeast) T-58 has less attenuation. In that experiment was a Rye Saison (70%pils 25%rye 5%sugar) and the Belle developed more saisonesque characteristics like a subtle funky and more peppery, and the T-58 has the peppery flavor but lacks the funky and also gives certain belgian flavor, a little bit more sweet and the rye was more noticeable.
Personally I preferred the Belle Saison one but most of my friends enjoy it the T-58 a lot more, I blame that mexican palate is more inclined to the sweet side and it was something similar to a Belgian Pale Ale rather than a Saison.
Belle Saison is a wonderful yeast, as I say is my “house” yeast and works very well in lows and high temps (my house saison is fermented in 28°C I think is 83°F and gets to a FG of 1.001) and i prefer the flavor profile a lot more thant the white labs i’ve used before. A lot people says Belle and Wyeast French Saison are very similar but that I have not tried, here in Mexico i cant find the wyeast ones.
3711 french saison is a little more complex than Belle Saison. similar flavor, both monster attenuators.
I have used the Belle Saison twice and was glad to see you wrote about it. But concerned you fermented down to 1.008. In both brews my fermentation stalled at 1.022. Agitation, time, temp. increase would not move the gravity any lower. I normally hold at around 66-68 deg.
Any idea why it stalls out?
I have no clue. To this day, that’s the only time I’ve used Belle Saison in a beer, but I use it for cider all the tie, it attenuates down to 1.000 nearly every time. I have a buddy making a batch for my birthday that Belle Saison dried out nicely. I’m really not sure why it’s stalling on you.
I used the Belle Saison for a Saison. 56 to 8. Characteristic phenols and dry. Added ginger, bitter orange, and coriander (not sure this helped…lol). Won 3rd place in local competition. If I can find dry yeasts that satisfy my preferences, then I’m happy. Love Belgians so I need to try the Abbaye. Thanks for all the excellent work!
love the belle saison, faster than wyeast belgian saison, but I use it until 30celcius and FD 998,
Ferment one ipa belgian yeast blend these two and the result is achieved and dry but fruity esters or picante..poco taste Belgian and roma … the range of temperature was 19 degrees ….. desepcion … there is not much difference between the taste and aroma of Belgian yeast liquid to dry?
The 66 degree ferment also stuck out to me. I absolutely love Belle Saison not only because i think it turns out great beers but also because it performs well hot. My ferm closet is usually around 72, as low as 67 in winter but as high as 77 in spring or summer. I use a lot of Belle Saison when I want to have a beer I’m proud of and avoid tedious, anxiety producing temperature control routines (tshirt evap and such).
I’ve yet to try the Abbaye yeast, however I’ve done a couple brews with the Belle Saison… and I’m not a fan. Each time I’ve gotten a ester quality that comes across very much like anise. After time it mellows out to a vanilla like quality. Adding brett and a lot of age brings it down to a much more enjoyable sweet apple character. If you like those flavours then go for it, but I feel they are not what I’m looking for in a Saison
Huh, I’ve have quite a few Saisons fermented with Belle Saison and have never noticed an anise character. It’s also my go-to strain for simple hard cider. Again, no anise or licorice-like flavor there either.
I recently used the Belle Saison yeast with the intention of brewing a Wired 8 style. Unfortunately I didn’t have the Nelson Sauvin hops so I combined the recipe with a Sorachi Ace recipe. Long story short I used only Sorachi Ace, 4 kg of Weyermann premium pils, 1 kg Victory, 370g Best Maltz Wheat. The result was an opaque white beer, more dense than Hoegaarden and mighty tasty. (bias admitted) with a white dense head. I will make the same again as soon as a fermenter becomes available. Very happy with this yeast. To expand slightly. I am becoming less enamoured with the liquid yeast offering. I find the dried yeasts more vigorous even allowing for making a starter with the liquids.
On a totally personal note. My brewing experience has been enhanced by Brulosophy. Thank you for your dedication and passion. Cheers,