Author: Marshall Schott
Some people seem to take pride in the fact their homebrew is hazy, usually alluding to the idea that the haze contributes greatly to the overall character of the beer, that it’s something all homebrewers should be proud of, as it symbolizes it was made by hand.
I’m not one of these people. At all.
One reason I don’t prefer hazy beer is that I enjoy sleeping next to my wife, though only slightly less important is the fact bright beer always tastes better to me. Even styles that allow for some cloudiness, like Saison, I still tend to prefer once they’ve dropped clear. I accept that my eyes may be biasing my taste buds. I have a feeling the sentiment that hazy beer is good comes solely from the reality that producing crystal clear beer can be a pain in the ass requiring either a filtering contraption or more time than most of us are interested in giving.
Brewers have developed numerous strategies for battling this annoying issue such as protein rests and using kettle finings like Irish Moss/Whirlfloc. My typical process includes the latter as a matter of course, even so, I still occasionally produce annoyingly hazy beer. I often use highly flocculant yeasts, cold crash, leave about an inch of beer in the carboy post racking, and wait a few days before tapping carbonated kegs in an attempt to pull clear beer from my taps. This usually does the trick, though as I’m sure many can relate, there are instances where a beer simply refuses to drop clear even after weeks in a cool environment. The culprit here is often chill haze, which very simply put, occurs when proteins in the beer come together as the temperature decreases, thereby increasing the opacity of the liquid; if you’ve ever let a hazy beer warm up and noticed it became very clear, you’ve experienced chill haze.
A couple years ago, I started hearing about brewers who routinely used gelatin to fine their beer, many swore it worked like magic, while others noticed little impact at all. I was intrigued, but too lazy to try it out for myself, as the large majority of my beers would clear up within 1-2 weeks of being kegged. It wasn’t until a few buddies and I brewed the same beer using the same exact recipe using our usual methods that I was inspired to try gelatin for myself. Brad, one of the five participants in the Brewer’s Thumbprint xBmt, was the only brewer to use gelatin to fine and his beer came out with commercial clarity, all the others were hazy as hell. I hit the web and discovered that while gelatin did seem to help with beer clarity, some folks complained it also reduced hop character in their beers, arguing that the aromatic oils were pulled out of suspension along with the haze producing compounds. It was time for me to put it to the test!
| PURPOSE |
To investigate the qualitative differences between a beer fined with gelatin and one receiving no post-boil fining.
| METHOD |
I’d been wanting to make a hoppy American Pale Ale mashed low and fermented with WLP002 for awhile, I figured this was as good a time as ever.
To Clear Or Not To Clear Pale Ale
Recipe Details
Batch Size | Boil Time | IBU | SRM | Est. OG | Est. FG | ABV |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
5.5 gal | 60 min | 41.2 IBUs | 4.9 SRM | 1.051 | 1.013 | 4.9 % |
Actuals | 1.051 | 1.014 | 4.9 % |
Fermentables
Name | Amount | % |
---|---|---|
Pilsner (2 Row) Ger | 6 lbs | 58.18 |
Pale Malt (2 Row) US | 2.312 lbs | 22.42 |
Vienna Malt | 1 lbs | 9.7 |
Honey Malt | 8 oz | 4.85 |
White Wheat Malt | 8 oz | 4.85 |
Hops
Name | Amount | Time | Use | Form | Alpha % |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
Galaxy | 5 g | 60 min | First Wort | Pellet | 15 |
Galaxy | 13 g | 25 min | Boil | Pellet | 15 |
Columbus (Tomahawk) | 7 g | 5 min | Boil | Pellet | 12.9 |
Columbus (Tomahawk) | 15 g | 15 min | Aroma | Pellet | 12.9 |
Galaxy | 15 g | 15 min | Aroma | Pellet | 15 |
Mosaic | 9 g | 15 min | Aroma | Pellet | 11.5 |
Galaxy | 28 g | 5 days | Dry Hop | Pellet | 15 |
Columbus (Tomahawk) | 20 g | 5 days | Dry Hop | Pellet | 12.9 |
Mosaic | 19 g | 5 days | Dry Hop | Pellet | 11.5 |
Yeast
Name | Lab | Attenuation | Temperature |
---|---|---|---|
English Ale (WLP002) | White Labs | 67% | 65°F - 68°F |
Notes
Water Profile: Yellow Bitter in Bru’n Water Spreadsheet |
Download
Download this recipe's BeerXML file |
The wort was produced using my typical 10 gallon batch sparge routine.
The boil happened, hops were added, the wort was chilled quickly with my JaDeD Hydra IC, carboys were filled and placed in my fermentation chamber, the yeast was pitched, and The Black Box was set to control the temperature to 65°F in order to suppress ester formation. After about 5 days, the krausen began to fall, fermentation activity was slowing, and I was nearing my target FG- it was time to dry hop.
A couple days later, I pulled hydrometer samples from both beers and confirmed they had reached FG.
Up until this point, both beers had been treated exactly the same, it wouldn’t be like this for long. Prior to starting this xBmt, I’d read a few different ways people fine with gelatin, many seemed to prefer using it in the keg while others advocated for racking the beer to a secondary carboy and adding the gelatin to that. I chose a slightly different method, one that required very little in the way of changing my normal routine.
Step 1: Cold crash beer until it is below 50°F. I turned my regulator down one night and it was at 45°F the next morning.
Step 2: Make gelatin solution. I followed my friend Brad’s method of combining 1/2 tsp Knox Unflavored Gelatin with 1/4 cup cool water then microwaving it in short (7 second) bursts until it reached 145-150°F, stirring with the end of a thermometer between each burst.
Step 3: Add gelatin solution to primary.
That’s all I did. I let the beers continue crashing to 32°F, which they were at by that evening, then let them sit an additional 32 hours or so. Packaging time came and both carboys were moved to a table, this is when I noticed an interesting difference in the appearance of the trub layer.
I’m not sure if it was caused by the gelatin or not, but I’ve never seen such a chunky layer of trub. I wondered if this might have been caused by the coagulating effect of the gelatin. Each beer was kegged using my standard procedure, at this point they both looked very similar.
The full kegs were placed in my keezer and left alone to carbonate for… errr… I was too excited to see if the gelatin worked and pulled some samples after only a day in the keg.
Okay, I’ve been thinking about how to approach writing about this next part. I usually try to save any discussion of differences for the results section, but since the primary reason people use gelatin is for clarity, any pics would reveal that difference before the results are presented, assuming it worked. Well…
It worked. It worked real good. It worked so good I almost couldn’t believe it.
I let the beers sit in the keezer for another 5 days before sharing them with tasting panel participants, mainly to allow them to finish carbonating, but I also wanted to give the batch that wasn’t fined with gelatin a fighting chance. The time definitely helped one of the beers…
The difference in appearance only became more stark, with the gelatin fined beer dropping as bright as any commercially filtered beer I’ve seen, while the non-gelatin beer was super hazy, hazier than most beers I make, something I attribute to the 2 oz dry hop charge. They didn’t even look like the same beer, how would they compare in terms of aroma, flavor, and mouthfeel?
| RESULTS |
In total, twelve people participated in the tasting panel, all were blind to the nature of the xBmt. To reduce the chances of bias due to the obvious differences in appearance, I opted to provide samples in scientifically engineered opaque polystyrene vessels. Each taster was presented with 3 samples, 2 non-gelatin and 1 fined with gelatin, then asked to identify which one was different than the others. The participants who accurately selected the different beer were asked to complete another more detailed survey comparing only the 2 different beers, still unaware of the difference between them. Given the number of participants in this xBmt, 8 (p<0.05) would have had to accurately select the different beer in order to conclude that gelatin had a significant effect on the overall character of the beer. Of the 12 people on the tasting panel, only 5 accurately selected the gelatin-fined beer as being different than the others. While slightly more than chance (4 or 33%), not even half of the experienced panel of tasters were capable of distinguishing differences in aroma, flavor, or mouthfeel between the beers.
Despite the non-significant results from the triangle test, I thought some readers may find the information from the second survey, taken by the 5 participants who were accurate on the first survey, at least somewhat interesting.
Aroma
Three tasters preferred the aroma of the beer with no gelatin while the other 2 preferred the gelatin-fined beer; similarly, 3 tasters thought the aroma of the no gelatin beers was somewhat similar to the gelatin-fined beer, while the others perceived them as being not at all similar.
Flavor
Four tasters preferred the flavor of the no gelatin beer while the other taster perceived no detectable differences; in terms of similarity, 2 reported the beers were not at all similar, 2 thought they were somewhat similar, and 1 felt they were exactly the same.
Mouthfeel
Three tasters chose the no gelatin beer as having better mouthfeel white the others preferred the gelatin-fined beer; 3 tasters believed there to be some similarity between the beers, while the other 2 experienced them as being exactly the same.
Overall, the beer that was not fined with gelatin was preferred by 3 tasters and the gelatin-fined beer was preferred by 2 tasters. When asked to guess which beer was fined with gelatin, again from an opaque cup, 2 tasters chose correctly, 2 chose the no gelatin beer, and 1 selected no detectable differences.
My Impressions: First off, I really enjoyed this beer, the 002 imparted great malt character but not enough to drown out all the hops. I absolutely will be fermenting more American styles with this strain! As far as comparing the beers, I do believe I noticed some very slight differences between them. My experience, which was absolutely biased, matches that of the folks who claim fining with gelatin slightly reduces hop character, as the no-gelatin batch did seem to have the subtlest bit more hop aroma and perhaps a touch more body. But here’s the kicker:
I totally preferred the beer that was fined with gelatin!
Not only did I perceive the hop character as being mostly intact, but I experienced the beer as more crisp and refined, like a great commercial quality beer. Plus, it looked gorgeous!
| DISCUSSION |
I’ve used gelatin in most of the beers I’ve made since analyzing this data, it has worked amazingly well, clearing beers up within a day or so of being packaged. While anecdotal experience may differ, the results of this particular xBmt seem to indicate that fining with gelatin does not significantly impact the aroma, flavor, or mouthfeel of beer. And it’s damn cheap! I paid $10 for enough gelatin to fine over 100 batches of homebrew, as each packet is good for about 3.5 carboys worth of beer. If you’re looking to end your haze problems, this may be just the solution!
Something some of you may find important: gelatin is non-vegetarian, so if you are or you brew for someone who is, consider using another fining product such as Biofine Clear or Polyclar.
If you have any thoughts about this xBmt, please do not hesitate to share in the comments section below!
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284 thoughts on “exBEERiment | The Gelatin Effect: Impact Fining With Gelatin Has On An American Pale Ale”
Does using gelatin effect the reusability of the yeast?
Not in my experience, not at all.
I imagine gelatin may not be as good a solution for us bottlers? Do you think the gelatin would also take most of the yeast needed for carbonation out of suspension?
Works fine for bottlers.
So there is enough yeast in suspension for bottling even after fining and 3 or 4 days at 32 degrees?
Anecdotal: our friends say yes, although we haven’t tested directly ourselves (since the brulosophy team keg/force carbonate).
I can attest to it being perfectly fine for bottlers. I used gelatin (with great results) and bottle all of my beer. Not even a change in time required to cabornate!
I fined with gelatne in the secondary for the first time on my last brew (IPA). I found that it cleared it up somewhat, however, it has definitely caused it to take longer to carbonate in the bottles.
Why are you racking to a secondary?
Hello Marshall, first thanks for all the awesome exbeeriments ! I used gelatin finings on my last brew and it works amazingly. But I am wondering : is there any effect of the gelatin fining on foam of the beer ? I got crazy big soap-like bubbles in my foam. Could this be a consequence of the precipitation of some proteins ?
I’ve not noticed any impact on foam and I use gelatin on every batch these days, but perhaps I’m not paying close enough attention. We have more gelatin xBmts in the works, I’ll be sure to monitor this more closely!
If you don’t want to lose out on the hop aroma, would adding an additional 5-10% combat that?
Kinda curious what the difference in aroma was.
I haven’t found gelatin to negatively impact hop aroma, but a little more hops never hurt anyone.
Can you harvest the yeast out of the carboy if you use gelatin? I was going to try this weekend(I just put gelatin in a batch yesterday, it’s cold crashing now)
I’ve done it numerous times, works great.
Thanks!
Is there a reason you add the gelatin around 50 ˚F?
Would adding the gelatin first, at room temp, then chilling the beer; or completely chilling the beer first, then adding gelatin work as well?
I’ve never tried it, so I don’t know, maybe a good xBmt 🙂
Everything I’ve heard about gelatin finings is to do it as cold as possible. Think about the typical chill haze in home brew, forming when the beer is cold and then disappearing as it warms up. In order for the finings to act on that haze the beer must first be cold so that the haze appears. So while gelatin may work at warmer temperatures to help drop out the yeast, it will be much effective at colder temperatures if your desired goal is eliminating haze forming particles and not only yeast.
I’ve read forums where people claim that if you add the gelatin at 32 ˚F, it will just turn into a jello blow and not distribute into the beer. Since it’s being poured in hot I’m not sure I believe that.
First batch I tried gelatin was an amber ale. I added it just below 50 ˚F and let it chill to 32 ˚F and sit for 2 days. Racked to a keg and the beer was still fairly cloudy. I had some issues with that mash, so it might have been starch haze? It didn’t go away when I warmed up the beer, and only the last dozen pints from the keg were even close to clear. I brewed it again (with much better success during mashing) and I’m going to try adding the gelatin at 32 ˚F. Hopefully it’ll work better this time!
The way I understand it, you want to chill the beer first in order to bring out the haze, then add the gelatin which will bind to it and drop out. Adding the gelatin before chilling may give it a headstart to start dropping before the haze-forming material has shown its face.
How do you add the gelatine? Just remove the air-lock, pour the solution in and put the air-lock back on?
That’s it, pretty simple.
Thanks a lot.
Hi Marshall, Sorry if the answer is buried in here somewhere and I missed it, what would you recommend for small batches (3-3.5 gallons)? Making up your standard amount and pouring less in, making up less, or just using the entire 5 gallon amount? Thanks in advance
Since it’s such a small amount of gelatin, I always use the normal amount for smaller batches. Cheers!
Do you use a half teaspoon of gelatin for a 10 gallon batch?
Yes.
Hey, I know this is an older post, but did your use Whirlfloc or Irish Moss in the boil? I’m debating omitting the kettle finings and just cold crashing with gelatin.
Irish Moss. I’ve left it out though and the beers still clear up nicely.
Ok, thanks. I’ll have to give it a shot, see if the trub layer compacts a bit more than it does with whirlfloc.
Out of curiosity, do you think fining with gelatin might have some of the same effects as “lagering”?
Just asking because in a recent batch with WLP029 (fermented at 19 degrees C I should add), after the bottles were carbonated the beer poured hazy and wasn’t crisp… more ale-like I guess. I stuck most of the bottles in the garage (basically 0 Celcius or whatever freezing is in Fahrenheit) for two weeks, but kept some at basement ambient (19C). After “lagering” the beer poured clear and tasting clean and crisp… lager-like (really fucking good, I love that yeast). It wasn’t just time that cleaned them up because my controls hadn’t really changed. Obviously the cold stay precipitated out suspended yeast and likely some other crap, like lagering is supposed to do. I’m wondering if I could have saved myself two weeks by just using gelatin (or if there is anything going on metabolically during “lagering” that affects flavor, at least with 029).
I use gelatin in every beer I make, and I make lager beers a lot. In my experience, gelatin seems to expedite the process rather drastically, to the point contributor Ray Found refers to it as “powdered time.”
I have used gelatin for my last several brews. I wanted to thank you for this(and all the other) exbeeriment! I put my gelatin in the keg. Seems to work even better than in the fermentor(I just do single stage fermentation, no secondary). I’d post a picture of my recent beer using this method…but don’t see an option to. Thanks again!
Awesome!
I came across this article when searching the internet for reasons why my first AG batch turned out extremely hazy. I’m still not entirely sure what caused the haze, but I suspect it was a combination of errors I made and maybe something to do with pH levels. I used the same yeast I have always used (US-05). The beer was just not clearing no matter how long I left it in the fermentation chamber. After reading this particular xbmt I figured I’d give it a try as a last ditch effort to fix my errors. I really didn’t think it would work for me since I figured the haze was likely not a normal beer haze, but something I created by mistake through my errors. Boy was I wrong! I haven’t felt that exciting “wow that’s so cool” feeling with this hobby since the early days. My disastrous first AG pale ale went from looking like a wheat ale to looking crystal clear within one week at near freezing temps. I was blown away. The flavor of the beer also changed considerably, and this I am quite confident about. When I first sampled it, there was a strange off flavor which I could no longer detect after clearing. Anyway, I just thought I’d drop a comment in here in case it may help someone out in the future.
I really enjoy your blog, I haven’t found anything this interesting on the internet in ages. I love how a lot of the things we do (or did) in our brewing, simply because it’s been convention for so long, may not always be necessary or helpful. A lot of the things I have questioned for a long time have been tested by you guys. Thanks for all the work you guys put in with the xbmts!
That’s awesome. Cheers!
Greetings from Norway. This is just so cool. I`ve just started brewing, first American Pale Ale came out semi clear. Next one will to I guess (since I found this page a litle bit to late to put it in action before bottling. Third batch (fermenting now) is at 21 degrees in fridge as we speak. It should be finished on Monday or Tuesday. What would you advise med to do? I`d love getting the beer crystal clear. Even if some of the aroma should be gone -to me the clearity would compensate for that. Fermenting in an old fridge noe, not possible for med to go below +4 I think since it`s a old one, and not a freezer (which I will get for mye next brew) Could I use gelatin and be succsessfull like you guys? Regarding the gelatin, does it matter what kind of gelatin one uses? Might be hard to get the one you reffering to in Norway in only a couple of days. Sorry for my poor English, Best reg 🙂
You can definitely add gelatin right now, just follow the instructions in the article and you should have nice clear beer within a day or so. Cheers!
Batch is an Pale Ale, my refridgerater only drops to +4, any thing I should think off? Use same amount as you did? (aprox 5,8 gallons in the fermentor)
I’ve heard from a few folks who have been in similar situations and everything worked fine. Yeah, use the same amount.
Will it work on bottles also, enough east left to eat sugar for carbonating?
Definitely.
Is this something to do on normal German Pilsner fermenting at 10 celsius also? Follow you fermenting steps by adding 5F every 12 hour, then cool down to 10 C, add Gelatin and cold-crash to 0 C?
Honestly, lately I haven’t been very concerned with the stepped increase in temp. After 4-5 days of active fermentation at 48-52F, I set the regulator to 68F and let the beer free rise over the next few days. Once finished and no off-flavors are present, I set regulator to 32F (no steps), add gelatin a day later, then keg 1-3 days after that.
Even crazier– I’ve been fermenting crisp, clean, delicious lager with 34/70 at 66F…
Yeast in Pilsner is: Saflager – German Lager Yeast W-34/70
Thank you for your reply Marshall, my lager has fermented for 7 days now. Adjusted the temp to 67F, guess the fridge will be there in the morning next day (late evening here now). I will be monitoring the FG in about 7 days or so. Then I will follow your method. Just CC to 32F and put in Gelatin. Then I will let it work for some days. I use CC kegs. Any tips on what to do, and when it`s ready to drink? (12L kegs) Realy happy for your time and answers,
Best reg,
Stig
Thanks for the quick reply. I will test and post results 🙂
I enjoy and learn a lot from your Xbmnts. Thanks. Is there any concern of introducing contaminants into the beer with the method you suggest for preparing and adding the gelatin?
Just used this method for the first time last night, but doing it directly into a chilled carbonated keg. I was a little apprehensive after heating and dissolving the gelatin as the smell is god awful, has anyone taken a whiff of that prepared potion? It’s like smelling a cows hoof directly 🙂
Thanks for all the great work!
Can you dry hop and use gelatin in the secondary at the same time?
Sure, but I prefer doing it all in primary.
Has anyone noticed any problems with bottled beer having trub stick to the bottom of the bottle (ie did using gelatin make cleaning the bottles any more of a hassle)
Not in my experience. Washes right out with some hot water. No more or less difficult than what’s typical of bottle conditioned beer. You may occasionally get that one lil spot or ring, just as before, but a hot water soak especially with PBW will make short work of it.
I have noticed that. I’m my opinion, this is actually a plus since it’s easier to pour a clear beer and not get any of the trub into the glass. I also have a habit of rinsing beer bottles right after pouring a beer, to the point where I do it with commercial beers I will be returning just out of habit. (Plus the pile of empties doesn’t smell like old beer!)
If I fine in the keg, should I give the gelatin a few days to work or can I carbonate with CO2 at the same time?
Carbonate at the same time, no problem.
As you are adding the gelatine solution to be that had hit target gravity, are you concerned with dissolved oxygen? Do you use previously boiled water? Could I use distilled water from an unopened bottle, or would that also contain O2?
No, not concerned at all about DO.
Hi Marshall,
Gelatin works great.
But, what about head retention? Is it the same as before?
cheers
luis
Hi Marshall, thanks a ton for the great info and enthusiasm you bring to home brewing,it’s contagious!
Quick q re. Gelatin: in you “standard amount vs. a lot” experiment you mentioned slightly swirling the carboy after adding the gelatin, but in this post it isn’t clear if you do this as part of your standard procedure. Do you agitate the beer after adding the gelatin, and if you don’t, do you think it will be benifitial?
I bump the carboy after adding gelatin, every time.
By “bumping”, do you mean just slightly rocking it a couple of times ? Verses stirring it with a spoon ?
Awesome website!
Exactly. Agitation without introducing O2 or risking contamination.
Thanks Marshall.
Been brewing fir 3 years. Fined the last 2 beers I’ve brewed with gelatine in the keg at 1c for 48hrs and the results are truly amazing. Last one was a hoppy pale ale that was quite hazy and the gelatine has got it star bright in 3 days!! Totally amazed. Cheers
Would like to better understand the difference between whirfloc, clarity firm, and gelatin, and what combination of these to use. My research so far suggests using both whirlfoc and clarity firm, as clarity firm is the one that bests removes the gluten.
Am not sure what gelatin’s impact on gluten is.
And am not sure which combination of these three achieves clarity and the most reduction in gluten. Clarity firm is by far the most expensive of the three. If it is the only one that removes most of the gluten, then the cost would be justified if gluten free beer is desired (unless one of the other two removes gluten).
So if clarity only is the goal, gelatin seems the best over whirlfoc and clarity firm. Correct?
If clarity and gluten free is the goal, then one would add clarity firm to the gelatin, and not bother with the whirlfloc. correct?
Hope you can clear all this up.
I would suggest you look up some the use of the various finings you mentioned. Try Palmer’s website or book. They all have specific usage, targets, and are uses at different stages of the brew.
Carrageenan, whirlfloc, irish moss are kettle finings and used twd end of boil. They aid in creating clearer wort post boils via coagulation of proteins – its a material attraction process that allows for better precipitation of proteins – hopefully limiting potential for permanent haze (protein polyphenol complexes).
Then in the fermentor Clarity Firm can be used, which is enzymatic, was meant to be a clearing agent but it also reduces gluten.
During the brite/ conditioning phase – gelatin can be use to target yeast hazes. There are other products that can be used in the conditioning phase as well (kegs, fermentors etc) – Biofine, polyclar, isinglass etc. Each it meant to target various cloud/haze causing agents (polyphenols, yeast, etc).
Thanks Marshal. Have been searching websites to answer the question to no avail. Then I found this on Marshal’s “Gelatin Effect P2 Exbeeriment” –
“As mentioned earlier, Clarity Ferm is also capable of reducing gluten levels, gelatin has not been reported to do so.”
Some how I overlooked that on the first read.
Great website.
… Malcolm
Sorry Malcolm.
Just giving you a hard time.
I appreciate you taking part in the conversation, Geof!
Question…I did the Brulosophy Quick Lager method and did gelatin in the fermenter for 48 hours. However, I still got some residual trub in the kegs while transferring (came off the side of a Chronical). Anyway, wondering if the gelatin is still in the beer, or should I give them another dose? (Two kegs worth of Czech Pils.)
In my experience, after a couple cloudy pours, the beer generally starts pouring clear. This assumes a standard barley grist and no keg hopping 🙂
Thanks…I figured as much, but wasn’t sure as I always gelatin in keg after transferring. Your articles are great…keep up the good work!
I am getting used to triangle testing. I noticed that you use only one triad composition (2 non-gelatine and 1 with gelatine). Did you at least performed different combinaison? Like for exemple AAB ABA and BAA? As ISO norm for triangle testing, you should always make 6 different triads. Says AAB ABA BAA BBA BAB ABB (normaly two sets of those 6 permutations should have been use for your 12 panelists.)
It is extremely time consuming to prepare and somewhat to analyse, but this is the only way to get significant results out of a triangular test.
I’ll be happy to elaborate with you.
We don’t. We’ve considered it, consulted with statisticians, and decided it was more work than it’s worth for the variables we are testing. Basically, we’d rather replicate.
I knew you knew I know you knew I knew you knew there was something going on!
Stick with 1 triad…you do a great job. I used gelatin for the first time on my last brew and it is amazing!! My wife laughs at me for how giddy I get looking at my commercially clear beer!
I used gelatin for the first time last night, added it to a beer that had been cold crashing at 32F for a couple of days.
Question – can I bottle tonight after only 24 hours, or should I wait until tomorrow morning (36+ hours)? I was hoping to free up that fermentor to brew another batch tomorrow morning, but if the gelatin needs more time to do its thing, I’ll wait.
I usually keg clear beer 12-18 hours after dosing.
As someone who bottles, I would wait a little bit longer. Someone who kegs will generally keep the beer cold from vessel to vessel, and the gelatin will continue to cling/drop even after being transferred to a keg. When bottling, we need to allow the beer to warm to room temp for carbing. Although the gelatin will continue to drop out of suspension (I suspect), the haze we are trying to drop will no longer be available. I’d personally give it 36-72 hours before bottling. I had one batch take a full 7 days to clear. So now I just take it easy and let the beer sit for weeks at near freezing. I know this may not suit everyone’s schedule, and there is definitely no harm in bottling early. Just thought I’d throw in my 2 cents. Enjoy!
Hi Marshalll,
Do you ever get sanitizer from your airlock into the beer when you cold crash?
Yep, almost every time, doesn’t seem to be an issue.
You used 1/2 tsp for 10 gallon would you need to use 1 tsp for 20 gallons
Yeah, that’s what I would do.
This might already be in the comments but how long can I let the gelatin sit if I’m going to be cold crashing for about a month?
I noticed that this hasn’t been answered… There is no “maximum” time. It drops out within a week or two. Basically, the longer you leave it, the more stuff will drop out (including gelatin). Hope that helps.
Hi, Marshal.
I was using this method but way off the amount of gelatine and I just realized it now. I was using 10g to a 7gal batch. 10g i think is a table spoon, 3x more you use in a 10 gallon batch, no technically I was using almost 4.5x more than what you use. I´ll fine my next batch with 2.5g and see how it turns out.
Very good article. nice and simple. cheers
I noticed that on several of your xbmt’s, you fine with gelatin in the keg. I’m planning to do that for the first time. What temperature is the beer when you add the gelatin? I’ve heard concerns about gelatin used in very cold beer. Thanks in advance!
Follow on question, how many pints of beer do you need to dump to get non gelatinized clear beer?
I’ve heard from a bunch of people who add gelatin finings at fermentation temperature just prior to putting the keg in their keezer and it apparently works great. I like to get my beer to 50F or lower first, but that’s just habit really.
I don’t fine in kegs, a couple of the other contributors do though. We just happened to be talking about this very topic last night and they were saying it usually takes up to 5 pints to get clear beer.
I love having my beer as clear as possible and using this method sure helps ALOT! I always do it for styles that don’t go through a long secondary (imperial stouts and such).
I have a bit of a dilemma now. I brewed your Best blonde ale using WLP029 and I want to harvest the yeast from the cake (rinsing with boiled-cooled water) but I also want to use gelatin in the carboy to get the beer as clear as possible. Do you think that the gelatin could have a negative impact on the yeast harvested from the bottom cake?
Cheers!
I’m over rinsing yeast, it really doesn’t seem to be beneficial at all. Search Brulosophy for “sloppy slurry” and you’ll see a series of xBmts testing out pitching unrinsed yeast, most of which contained gelatin 🙂
Read all articles. Awesome stuff Marshall! I’m done rinsing yeast. I already burned my thigh with boiling water last time I rinsed the yeast cake.
If you use yeast slurry, which one is better: vitality or viability starter?
Both work great! If you plan to continue using that strain, I’d overbuild a standard viability starter and harvest of that, otherwise I’m all about vitality.
Hi Marshall, do you use pre boiled your water before using it for the gelatin, or at that point there is less chance of contamination…?
Thanks
Nope. I use hot water from my tap.
Same. You’re heating it to 145-155 F (63-68C) so just about anything of concern will be killed.
Malcolm, thanks for the diligence in answering the posts over time. Very helpful. I recently built an IPA with 2 serial dry hop events over 14 days. I racked to Sanke kegs and added gel at room T at the same time that I began crashing it in my keezer down to 38F. I carbonated over 10-12 days and then started sampling. After some muddy pours, the beer was clear but there were “floaters” of hops in suspension that eventually were reduced to almost none. After letting it sit unsampled for a few days, I noticed an intense hop resin aftertaste that persisted for several pints and then just as quickly disappeared. The beer returned to it’s expected bitterness. My question is, do you think fine particulates of hop material continue to settle out of suspension after the initial gooey pints are poured that would have contributed to the excessive bite? The larger question is, does gelatin continue to work on the beer over time or is there a finite period?
And maybe a related observation that I don’t understand either. I had 2 kegs of the same IPA. It’s all to be counter-pressure bottled for a friend. We kegged the first keg, no problems at all. We drew a pint or two out of the 2nd keg for “quality control purposes :)” and it looked clean. We started to fill bottles and noticed that the flow had dropped and also that the beer had gotten really murky/cloudy greenish. The flow was related to the hop floaties I mentioned above. But why would I be able to pour 2 or 3 pints that were perfect and then run into what looks like more gelatin? Does it stratify into layers? Nothing was moved, nothing shaken up, no change in bottling pressure. What gives?
I just fined a Munich Helles with maybe 1 tsp gelatin in 6 gallons. It was crystal clear in 2 days! Awesome! 20 days grain to glass Helles.
Helles Yeah! (sorry – couldn’t resist)
Love your site. Thanks for everything you do. I have a question about how you prepare the gelatin. What is the reason for heating to 145-150 instead of just boiling? Would boiling damage or alter it in any way? I only ask because it just seems simpler (and more sanitary) to bring that water to a full boil in the microwave. I know that Jello can be made with boiling water, so it would seem not to harm the gelatin in that instance.
Thanks for any info.
When I first started using gelatin, I was told boiling would “denature” the gelatin. I’ve since been told this is not the case at all and have heard from people who boil with success. It’s still just as easy for me to heat to ~155˚F, so that’s what I do, but I don’t think it matters.
Thanks for the response. A quick follow-up! Everyone seems to stress that the beer must be chilled before adding gelatin, but what if you added it to warm beer at kegging and then chilled? Shouldn’t it still drop out, pulling haze and yeast with it? I don’t have the capacity to chill a fermenter (small fridge), and would love to avoid opening a sealed, carbed keg if possible.
Thanks again!
The worry/danger there (theoretically as I have never experienced it) is that the gelatin WILL drop some particles out of solution at room temp and leave others, which will then be “trapped” in suspension once the beer is cooled. It seems like that might be more of a problem with finings designed to remove starch haze though.
Great article, interesting results. Question; why is clear beer ‘better’ than a hazy beer? I personally prefer a bit of haze, looks like the beer has more substance.
Marshall – As I know you’re keen on efficiency, why wait till the beer is below 50 degrees to add the gelatin? Why not add it just before you cold crash and save yourself the step of adding it later? Love your site and all you’ve done to improve my brewing processes!
Never mind. I see you’ve already addressed this in one of the (many) comments. Thank you!
I’m curious if anyone has experienced a slight off flavor from fining? I’ve been getting the slightest plastic / band-aid flavor since I’ve been fining. I’ve been retracing all my steps and made some changes because it may be something else. Yet, that mixture smells like a wet dog before I add it to the primary so I can’t help but wonder.
Fining definitely works though for clarity. It’s ridiculous how well it works.
Love the site and the podcast! I have no idea how you manage this, a job and a family.
Does anybody tried to find with agar? As I understand it’s similar to gelatin but vegetarian.
use Biofine. it is vegan and works well
Thanks for all your write ups! I have used this successfully in 5 gallon carboys on multiple occasions. However when using twice the amount in 10 gallon batches fermented in a sanke it didn’t seem to work. I tried doubling that amount and still the results weren’t close to what it was for the 5 gallon batches.
I’ll try “bumping” the fermenter next time (which I hadn’t done with any previous batch)
Do you have any other recommendations? For both 5 gallon and10 gallon batches the beer was under 50F before adding the gelatin and at 32F for at least 3 days before kegging.
Thanks
I disagree with you a little on this:
I do agree that haze due to yeast isn’t good, despite my appreciation for the occasional Hefeweizen. Almost, if not, every other style of beer which is unclear due to yeast would taste better clear…
BUT a protein or chill haze is a completely different matter. It doesn’t affect the flavour. It’s purely aesthetic. I propose that saying all beers with haze are not as good as they would be if they’re clear is a symptom of ignorance and prejudice. Where beer has a haze it is usually because the yeast hasn’t fully dropped out, and in these instances I agree that almost always means the beer is less enjoyable than it would be if it were clear. If a beer naturally has a haze due to protein content, this is completely acceptable. New England style IPA being a prime example. How else do you achieve that thick, smooth, creamy, mouth feel?
I think that beers that are supposed to have a protein haze are rare enough that an urban myth has developed that every beer with a haze is of low quality as the vast majority of examples a person is likely to come across are due to excessive residual yeast in suspension. The reality being that high protein content beers like a white stout or a NEIPA do not suffer for having a haze. The only people who suffer are those who don’t drink them because they aren’t clear.
The majority of my I prefer clear without haze and brew purposely to achieve this, NEIPA orange juice being the exception, however if one enjoys cloudy beer then haze away.
At the winery where I work if we add a fining agent, such as gelatin, or hot mix sparkoloid, it is added during a vigorous pump over. The reason is that fining agents react nearly instant, and slowly adding fining agents to circulating wine makes sure that it is very well mixed.
Also, it depends on what haze you are trying to eliminate. For protein we use bentonite. The reaction is one of reverse ion attraction. If you identify the “haze” and know if it is either positive or negatively charged ion, you choose the appropriate fining agent.
NEW to brewing, but wondered if this can be used just prior to bottling? One needs yeast for reacting with priming sugars. There should be “some” yeast still in suspension, but I would garner that after fining and then racking to your bottling carboy and after adding priming sugar, it might be prudent to add some dissolved in water yeast to the whole before bottling. Yes?
I know people who fine with gelatin and bottle condition, carbonation can take a little longer but it works fine.
To increase the overall effect of gelatin, might I suggest the use of a special “spinner” rod? Basically it is a SS or nylon rod that has a slot cut/milled in the end and then cross drilled. You put 2 pieces of small SS “tabs”, or food grade plastic, between the slot and attach with a piece of SS wire or very small SS pin/bolt. It hangs loose. It is attached to a regular hand drill, portable is preferred. When at rest, and not spinning the small tabs just “hang”, but when put into fluid and then the drill rotates the shaft, the fins spread out and create drag and move wine/beer. It can be lowered and raised into small bung holes such as barrels to stir them, or into carboys for the same purpose. Since they will go limp and hang down with no rotation, the whole shaft is easy to just pull out of a carboy.
Vern
Haven’t found any of that to be necessary. Gelatin usually results in crystal beer now, without the wine-like techniques of bâtonnage etc.
Three tasters chose the no gelatin beer as having better mouthfeel white the others
**while**
Looks like you really got a lot out of the experiment! Nyce Werk!
Often fining can strip small amounts of aromas from wine, and I can’t see why it would not happen with beer as well. The trick is to fine ‘judicious” use, or just only as much as is needed to get the job done. Sometimes too much will also create a haze. Many times at the winery we will do fining trials to see how much is needed and then evaluate how much flavor and aroma was stripped out of the wine.
Posting the amount / gallon of beer would be GREAT! That way a person doing a 2 or 3 gallon batch can adjust accordingly. Often it is easier to make a little stronger amount of fining and add less of the total volume. You still get the same effect, as you are adding the same amount of fining agent, but less water to go along with it.
Hi Marshall,
Great test, which has inspired me to try out the gelatin as fining agent as well. Just to get it right in the metric environment. For 10 gallons (~38 liters, was that for gelatin batch alone or did you split the 10 gallons between the two?) you used:
– 1/2 (half) a teaspoon of gelatin powder (~2.5 milliliters)
– 1/4 (quarter) cup of water (~59 milliliters, it seems to be bit more in the pictures?)
Cheers!
Hey Niels! Those amount are what I use for 5 gallons of beer, so if you’re fermented 10 gallons in a single vessel, I might simply double the amounts.
Thanks for the prompt answer! Every thing seems clear to me now, :o) – my only challenge will be to find a replacement for the Knox gelatin which is not something you can get in Denmark apparently.
Hi Niels
A user in “Håndbrygger”-facebook-forum just bought gelatine powder in Føtex. rather cheap as well.
Sounds like you should join our forum