Author: Marshall Schott
Some people seem to take pride in the fact their homebrew is hazy, usually alluding to the idea that the haze contributes greatly to the overall character of the beer, that it’s something all homebrewers should be proud of, as it symbolizes it was made by hand.
I’m not one of these people. At all.
One reason I don’t prefer hazy beer is that I enjoy sleeping next to my wife, though only slightly less important is the fact bright beer always tastes better to me. Even styles that allow for some cloudiness, like Saison, I still tend to prefer once they’ve dropped clear. I accept that my eyes may be biasing my taste buds. I have a feeling the sentiment that hazy beer is good comes solely from the reality that producing crystal clear beer can be a pain in the ass requiring either a filtering contraption or more time than most of us are interested in giving.
Brewers have developed numerous strategies for battling this annoying issue such as protein rests and using kettle finings like Irish Moss/Whirlfloc. My typical process includes the latter as a matter of course, even so, I still occasionally produce annoyingly hazy beer. I often use highly flocculant yeasts, cold crash, leave about an inch of beer in the carboy post racking, and wait a few days before tapping carbonated kegs in an attempt to pull clear beer from my taps. This usually does the trick, though as I’m sure many can relate, there are instances where a beer simply refuses to drop clear even after weeks in a cool environment. The culprit here is often chill haze, which very simply put, occurs when proteins in the beer come together as the temperature decreases, thereby increasing the opacity of the liquid; if you’ve ever let a hazy beer warm up and noticed it became very clear, you’ve experienced chill haze.
A couple years ago, I started hearing about brewers who routinely used gelatin to fine their beer, many swore it worked like magic, while others noticed little impact at all. I was intrigued, but too lazy to try it out for myself, as the large majority of my beers would clear up within 1-2 weeks of being kegged. It wasn’t until a few buddies and I brewed the same beer using the same exact recipe using our usual methods that I was inspired to try gelatin for myself. Brad, one of the five participants in the Brewer’s Thumbprint xBmt, was the only brewer to use gelatin to fine and his beer came out with commercial clarity, all the others were hazy as hell. I hit the web and discovered that while gelatin did seem to help with beer clarity, some folks complained it also reduced hop character in their beers, arguing that the aromatic oils were pulled out of suspension along with the haze producing compounds. It was time for me to put it to the test!
| PURPOSE |
To investigate the qualitative differences between a beer fined with gelatin and one receiving no post-boil fining.
| METHOD |
I’d been wanting to make a hoppy American Pale Ale mashed low and fermented with WLP002 for awhile, I figured this was as good a time as ever.
To Clear Or Not To Clear Pale Ale
Recipe Details
| Batch Size | Boil Time | IBU | SRM | Est. OG | Est. FG | ABV |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 5.5 gal | 60 min | 41.2 IBUs | 4.9 SRM | 1.051 | 1.013 | 4.9 % |
| Actuals | 1.051 | 1.014 | 4.9 % | |||
Fermentables
| Name | Amount | % |
|---|---|---|
| Pilsner (2 Row) Ger | 6 lbs | 58.18 |
| Pale Malt (2 Row) US | 2.312 lbs | 22.42 |
| Vienna Malt | 1 lbs | 9.7 |
| Honey Malt | 8 oz | 4.85 |
| White Wheat Malt | 8 oz | 4.85 |
Hops
| Name | Amount | Time | Use | Form | Alpha % |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Galaxy | 5 g | 60 min | First Wort | Pellet | 15 |
| Galaxy | 13 g | 25 min | Boil | Pellet | 15 |
| Columbus (Tomahawk) | 7 g | 5 min | Boil | Pellet | 12.9 |
| Columbus (Tomahawk) | 15 g | 15 min | Aroma | Pellet | 12.9 |
| Galaxy | 15 g | 15 min | Aroma | Pellet | 15 |
| Mosaic | 9 g | 15 min | Aroma | Pellet | 11.5 |
| Galaxy | 28 g | 5 days | Dry Hop | Pellet | 15 |
| Columbus (Tomahawk) | 20 g | 5 days | Dry Hop | Pellet | 12.9 |
| Mosaic | 19 g | 5 days | Dry Hop | Pellet | 11.5 |
Yeast
| Name | Lab | Attenuation | Temperature |
|---|---|---|---|
| English Ale (WLP002) | White Labs | 67% | 65°F - 68°F |
Notes
| Water Profile: Yellow Bitter in Bru’n Water Spreadsheet |
Download
| Download this recipe's BeerXML file |
The wort was produced using my typical 10 gallon batch sparge routine.
The boil happened, hops were added, the wort was chilled quickly with my JaDeD Hydra IC, carboys were filled and placed in my fermentation chamber, the yeast was pitched, and The Black Box was set to control the temperature to 65°F in order to suppress ester formation. After about 5 days, the krausen began to fall, fermentation activity was slowing, and I was nearing my target FG- it was time to dry hop.
A couple days later, I pulled hydrometer samples from both beers and confirmed they had reached FG.
Up until this point, both beers had been treated exactly the same, it wouldn’t be like this for long. Prior to starting this xBmt, I’d read a few different ways people fine with gelatin, many seemed to prefer using it in the keg while others advocated for racking the beer to a secondary carboy and adding the gelatin to that. I chose a slightly different method, one that required very little in the way of changing my normal routine.
Step 1: Cold crash beer until it is below 50°F. I turned my regulator down one night and it was at 45°F the next morning.
Step 2: Make gelatin solution. I followed my friend Brad’s method of combining 1/2 tsp Knox Unflavored Gelatin with 1/4 cup cool water then microwaving it in short (7 second) bursts until it reached 145-150°F, stirring with the end of a thermometer between each burst.
Step 3: Add gelatin solution to primary.
That’s all I did. I let the beers continue crashing to 32°F, which they were at by that evening, then let them sit an additional 32 hours or so. Packaging time came and both carboys were moved to a table, this is when I noticed an interesting difference in the appearance of the trub layer.
I’m not sure if it was caused by the gelatin or not, but I’ve never seen such a chunky layer of trub. I wondered if this might have been caused by the coagulating effect of the gelatin. Each beer was kegged using my standard procedure, at this point they both looked very similar.
The full kegs were placed in my keezer and left alone to carbonate for… errr… I was too excited to see if the gelatin worked and pulled some samples after only a day in the keg.
Okay, I’ve been thinking about how to approach writing about this next part. I usually try to save any discussion of differences for the results section, but since the primary reason people use gelatin is for clarity, any pics would reveal that difference before the results are presented, assuming it worked. Well…
It worked. It worked real good. It worked so good I almost couldn’t believe it.
I let the beers sit in the keezer for another 5 days before sharing them with tasting panel participants, mainly to allow them to finish carbonating, but I also wanted to give the batch that wasn’t fined with gelatin a fighting chance. The time definitely helped one of the beers…
The difference in appearance only became more stark, with the gelatin fined beer dropping as bright as any commercially filtered beer I’ve seen, while the non-gelatin beer was super hazy, hazier than most beers I make, something I attribute to the 2 oz dry hop charge. They didn’t even look like the same beer, how would they compare in terms of aroma, flavor, and mouthfeel?
| RESULTS |
In total, twelve people participated in the tasting panel, all were blind to the nature of the xBmt. To reduce the chances of bias due to the obvious differences in appearance, I opted to provide samples in scientifically engineered opaque polystyrene vessels. Each taster was presented with 3 samples, 2 non-gelatin and 1 fined with gelatin, then asked to identify which one was different than the others. The participants who accurately selected the different beer were asked to complete another more detailed survey comparing only the 2 different beers, still unaware of the difference between them. Given the number of participants in this xBmt, 8 (p<0.05) would have had to accurately select the different beer in order to conclude that gelatin had a significant effect on the overall character of the beer. Of the 12 people on the tasting panel, only 5 accurately selected the gelatin-fined beer as being different than the others. While slightly more than chance (4 or 33%), not even half of the experienced panel of tasters were capable of distinguishing differences in aroma, flavor, or mouthfeel between the beers.
Despite the non-significant results from the triangle test, I thought some readers may find the information from the second survey, taken by the 5 participants who were accurate on the first survey, at least somewhat interesting.
Aroma
Three tasters preferred the aroma of the beer with no gelatin while the other 2 preferred the gelatin-fined beer; similarly, 3 tasters thought the aroma of the no gelatin beers was somewhat similar to the gelatin-fined beer, while the others perceived them as being not at all similar.
Flavor
Four tasters preferred the flavor of the no gelatin beer while the other taster perceived no detectable differences; in terms of similarity, 2 reported the beers were not at all similar, 2 thought they were somewhat similar, and 1 felt they were exactly the same.
Mouthfeel
Three tasters chose the no gelatin beer as having better mouthfeel white the others preferred the gelatin-fined beer; 3 tasters believed there to be some similarity between the beers, while the other 2 experienced them as being exactly the same.
Overall, the beer that was not fined with gelatin was preferred by 3 tasters and the gelatin-fined beer was preferred by 2 tasters. When asked to guess which beer was fined with gelatin, again from an opaque cup, 2 tasters chose correctly, 2 chose the no gelatin beer, and 1 selected no detectable differences.
My Impressions: First off, I really enjoyed this beer, the 002 imparted great malt character but not enough to drown out all the hops. I absolutely will be fermenting more American styles with this strain! As far as comparing the beers, I do believe I noticed some very slight differences between them. My experience, which was absolutely biased, matches that of the folks who claim fining with gelatin slightly reduces hop character, as the no-gelatin batch did seem to have the subtlest bit more hop aroma and perhaps a touch more body. But here’s the kicker:
I totally preferred the beer that was fined with gelatin!
Not only did I perceive the hop character as being mostly intact, but I experienced the beer as more crisp and refined, like a great commercial quality beer. Plus, it looked gorgeous!
| DISCUSSION |
I’ve used gelatin in most of the beers I’ve made since analyzing this data, it has worked amazingly well, clearing beers up within a day or so of being packaged. While anecdotal experience may differ, the results of this particular xBmt seem to indicate that fining with gelatin does not significantly impact the aroma, flavor, or mouthfeel of beer. And it’s damn cheap! I paid $10 for enough gelatin to fine over 100 batches of homebrew, as each packet is good for about 3.5 carboys worth of beer. If you’re looking to end your haze problems, this may be just the solution!
Something some of you may find important: gelatin is non-vegetarian, so if you are or you brew for someone who is, consider using another fining product such as Biofine Clear or Polyclar.
If you have any thoughts about this xBmt, please do not hesitate to share in the comments section below!
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284 thoughts on “exBEERiment | The Gelatin Effect: Impact Fining With Gelatin Has On An American Pale Ale”
Thank you for sharing another detailed interesting experiment! Great stuff!
Do you have any idea how will it work with bottle conditioned beer?
Will there be enough yeast in the bottle to carbonate the beer after treating it with gelatin?
I’ve never done it, but it worked fine for my friends who have.
Well I had to try this procedure with bottle conditioned beer and it works great.
No carbonation issues and the beer is clear!
Thanks again for sharing this post.
Cheers!
Might be a bit late to the party here, but I routinely bottle condition all my beers, including those I fine with Gelatin – never had a problem with carbonation, I haven’t even noticed a difference in time to carbonate at all.
I do have to be a bit more careful with the pour though, without gelatin, I didn’t mind too much if I pour a bit of the yeast from the bottom, but with gelatin, the yeast and gelatin clumps together and looks a bit like snot, that looks a bit funky if I get it in the glass.
I tried to leave a comment but something seemed tobe wrong with the connection. Anyway my commentis that those who don’t want to use gelatin becauseit animal based could use agar-agar which seems towork the same.
Have you ever run across an authoritative source on whether gelatin can be safely used with bottle conditioning without another yeast addition? Everything I have seen seems to indicate “eh… maybe… give it a shot, I guess.”
– Dennis, Life Fermented Blog
I have friends who have done it successfully, but that’s it.
I’ve done it, carbed up fine. I wouldn’t do it with a long-aged or high-abv beer like a Barleywine or RIS, but for mid-strength, fresh beers I’ve had zero issues.
I always use fresh yeast for bottle conditioning, hydrated lallemond CBC, 1 million cell per ml. Fast carbonation, consumes O2 fast, less sediment and more compact. Cheers!
Apologies to our vegan/vegetarian friends, but gelatin is seriously magic. Though it may be true that gelatin will pull some hop character out, I find it also pulls some of the harsher character out with it, producing a much smoother beer.
I’m a firm believer that you drink with your eyes. Folks are hesitant to admit it, but I think if you were somehow able to give a person the exact same beer–one hazy and one crystal clear–folks would choose the crystal clear beer 100% of the time.
Great ExBeeriment as always. I had been using gelatin quite a bit, but have been playing around with Polyclar and with SuperKleer. All of them seem to pull a bit of hop character out – especially aroma, but I compensate with a bit more late and dry hops. Superkleer works incredibly quickly, especially with cold crashing, affecting both negative and positive charged particles. All of them dramatically shorten my conditioning time at cold temps. I also use Whirlfloc or Irisih Moss in the kettle to augment.
Gelatin may offend vegan or vegetarians as an ingredient, and keiselsol/chitosan (used in SuperKleer and Isenglass clarifiers) may also be an issue. If anyone has sensitivity to shellfish, chitosan should probably be avoided.
Good enough for me – buying some geletan this weekend 🙂 Great experiment, though I’m more interested in how the mouthfeel/taste/aroma would change when gelatin is added.
One more “…but what if I’m bottle conditioning” question 🙂
Did you stir the wort (I guess beer would be a better term at this point) after adding the gelatin solution? Some people suggest that you need to “gently swirl” (http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2012/06/how-to-clear-your-beer-with-gelatin.html) the fermentor after adding it. I guess if you are kegging it won’t be needed as the beer will be sufficiently agitated when transferred to the keg as to mix it evenly. If one is bottle conditioning though, won’t just pouring the gelatin into the wort result in higher concentration of gelatin in some bottles than others, or the gelatin solution will mix thouroughly without the need of agitating the beer and risking adding oxygen to it?
Nope! No stirring.
Aren’t you in any case supposed to rack you beer and mix it with your priming sugar? If you use tabs, then I’d be slightly concerned—though fluid mechanics would tell you you should not be.
Great ExBEERiment
Gelatin is a shorter polymer of collagen, which is found in the tissues and provides strength and elasticity to those tissues i.e. skin and bones. The structure of collagen consists of 3 collagen fibers bundled together in a helix similar to what DNA looks like but instead of 2 strands we have 3 fibers making a helical structure.
As with all proteins, collagen is a long chain of amino acids. Each respective amino acid has various physical properties: non-polar, polar, or charged (- , +). Collagen is long chains of very specific repeating amino acids glycine – X – Y where X is usually proline and Y is hydroxyproline the Y position. When these long chains of repeating amino acids are shortened they form gelatin. Essentially, it’s just shorter chains of these repeating amino acids (http://www.gelatin.co.za/gltn1.html).
Now the physical properties of these amino acids are either hydrophobic (dislikes water) or hydrophilic (likes water). When you put these into solution (primary fermentor) they are going to want to bond with components of the solution to make them “happy.” So the end of the amino acid chain that likes water will bind to solutes (stuff in water) in the solution and form a physical bond with it. Same with the ends of the chain that dislike water, it will bind to solutes that dislike water and form a physical bond with it. This causes the gelatin to gelatinize in the solution (primary fermentor in the ExBEERiment) and rid the solution of particles that would otherwise cause “hazy” beer, which you hate so much.
It would be a fun experiment to measure the concentration of particles in your beer based on how much light bends as it’s exposed to your beer to determine it’s true clarity based on those measurements through the application of the equation we know as “Beer’s Law.”
Source: BS in molecular biology, biology graduate student, and teaching assistant for structural biochemistry course.
I heard you say “Are you a gelatin scientist who can shed some light on this interesting subject” and thought I’d run with it 😀
There’s also more info out there, but you kind of have to dig around as it appears gelatins use in beer is quite new.
Also, since the gelatin is forming a gel in the solution and taking out particles as it does, I would most certainly agree that you will lose some flavor.
I have used gelatin in both the primary and the keg and have found the keg to produce better results. I don’t know if this is true, but I attribute better clarity from the keg to the ability to swirl the gelatin into the beer. With the keg, one can rack the beer, add gelatin, then close and purge to get rid of oxygen which allows you to swirl the gelatin into solution without worrying about oxidation. Like I said, I can’t vouch that this is what makes it more effective, but it has worked better for me with this process.
I’ve never swirled and all the beers are coming out super clear.
Great experiment! Thanks for sharing!
I used just put in my first attempt of Gelatine finings. But I looked it up and a source stated 5g per 20l.. By my calculations your using 1.5g for 20l.
Ill reduce my doase next time.
Have you tried dry hopping after fining to recharge the aroma?
I haven’t… yet
Would love to hear how using gelatin pre dry hop compares. I just started dry hopping a batch and was planning on doing a second and smaller dry hop addition after a week. I’m debating whether I want to add my second addition into the keg after I’ve cleared it with gelatin or not. Not sure what would be worse losing some hop character or clarity (or if either would even be an issue).
On a side note, you’re the number 2 result on google for ‘beer gelatin dry hop). Coming up…
Thanks for the great xBmt idea, Joel! I just did that google search you mentioned, went 3 pages and didn’t see Brulosophy… but that’s cool 😉
Is it me, or is the clarity significantly different between the beers when you measured the FG (before adding the gelatin)? I can barely make out the hydrometer numbers in the beer on the left-hand side, but they are easily readable in the right-hand panel.
I think a better way to do this experiment would have been split the batch AFTER fermentation, ensuring that each split was identical in clarity then add gelatin to one, but not the other. In this way, you could remove any differences between fermentors/fermentation.
Otherwise, interesting stuff!
Clarity was about the same, looks different due to hydrometer position.
I use gelatin in the keg with consistently good results. I have followed the “Don O” method (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYaVaCyT2yY); now I’ll be reducing the amount of gelatin used and using it in primary, thereby subtracting yet another unneeded step in the process! Thanks!
I used that method with not as good results, and way longer waits, than using Tony Yates’ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aExs2j1s3E).
Cheers!
Great write up… Looks like gelatin is in my future…
I’ve always used gelatine to clear up my beers, works a treat. I tend to add it to beer as its being transferred to secondary.
One thing to note, if you bottle condition, the beer takes a little more time to carb up and your bottles will end up with ‘fluffy bottoms’. This mean the yeast cake doesnt compact as much and it only takes a small amount of movement to disturb it. Extra care taken when pouring.
Jon, I second that on my first Gelatin batch. Even after a couple months in the bottle, the yeast wanted to join the glass, where as all of my other beers pour well without any yeast travel. This issue is on my watch list.
My carb up time was just fine though. this was a WLP029 batch.
I second that as well. My first bottled batch using gelatin left a small amount of strange, goopy sediment on the bottom of each bottle. I thought “oh no! Ive ruined my beer!” It is easily disturbed and care must be taken when pouring into a glass so it doesn’t join the beer. I found out later that it is the gelatin binding with leftover yeast. Btw- beer is clear as ever!!!!! It also did take a little while longer to carb up, using corn sugar.
I once fined one of my pumpkin cider batches with gelatin and it cleared it right up. The only problem I had was I bottled it too soon, so all the finings settled in all of the beer bottles. Lesson learned: wait a few days to bottle after using gelatin.
I have yet to try gelatin with beer batches, mostly because my new favorite yeast (Safale S-04) settles everything out within a few days of fermenting.
Great write up! I’m ordering some gelatin through your link and will try this on my batch currently in the fermenter. One question, when you mixed the gelatin did you sanitize the measuring cup and use boiled water? Or do you not need to worry about sanitizing because your’re heating it up?
I haven’t, actually, but its probably not a terrible idea. Cheers!
I was actually going to ask the same question re: sanitising the measuring jug prior to giving this method a shot today. Marshall, have you changed your method and started sanitising?
I haven’t. I grab the measuring cup from my cupboard, put 1/4 cup cold water in it, add 1/2 tsp gelatin, microwave for about 30 seconds until it’s hot to the touch, stir, and dump in carboy.
Yeah, I was using gelatin on all my homebrew in the 90s. I noticed how clear it made the beer. Also noticed how my scores improved in homebrew contests. I might add that a major ding on a lot of entries today is they are not very clear, especially when style guidelines call for a clear beer. So I recommend gelatin for homebrew. It works!BTW, some guys run homebrew through a filter and get similar results, but I like the gelatin for its ease of use…Beyond that, a lot of craft beers are producing very cloudy beers today. Seems some craft beer drinkers prefer it that way. Kind of a new wave thing. Beer the way it used to be. Less work for the brewer too….Should be served in ceramic tankards so turbidity not noticeable…When are you gonna brew the 1750 London Porter? Scotty’s bringing some to the meeting Saturday!
Gelatin is now a part of my regular brewing routine, to be sure! I’ve still got the Porter on my to-do list, just so many things have come up and only so much time to complete it all. I’m looking forward to trying Scotty’s 🙂
BJCP scoring guidelines alot only 3 points for appearance, and even an excessively hazy beer is unlikely to cost you more than a single point. That’s 2% of the maximum possible score — is that major?
I don’t think it’s major… but my preference for clear beer has nothing to do with how it might impact a potential score in comp.
Would it work adding gelatine even if you’re not cold-crushing?
My understanding, and I’m no gelatin expert, is that coagulation starts to occur around 50°F, so I don’t believe you’d see much impact if you’re unable to at least chill the beer. That said, as I think about it, perhaps the gelatin stays in solution until it’s chilled, then has a similar effect as cold crashing. It’s cheap and easy enough to try, if anyone is willing.
Have you tried this with lagers? Does it help?
I have and it acts the same way, clearing the beer very quickly.
Great article! Looks like the link is bad though…I want to comment on this post.
-Adam
Sorry about that, something went weird when I originally published, here’s a working link:
https://brulosophy.com/2015/01/05/the-gelatin-effect-exbeeriment-results/
Just to clarify, the solution is added to the cold crashed beer at 145-150°, and not cooled down at all?
I tried the gelatin treatment just once before moving. I’ll give it another go.
“scientifically engineered opaque polystyrene vessels” LOL!
Thank you for another great post!
That’s right. The 1/4 cup + 1/2 tsp gelatin is warmed to ~150˚F (though I’ve since learned temp doesn’t matter) then added directly to the cool beer, which chill is right quick.
I love your exbeeriments and I read each single one of them. Being from Switzerland the imperial units you are using result in a huge load of mathematics (at least if I want to copy your exbeeriments very exactly).
I mean what is a tsp? Well, it is a unit for volumes (2-3 Mililiters nobody knows exactly) and we use these volume-units for measuring liquids. But gelatine is not a liquid, so I would use a weight unit for measuring this. By using the gravity of gelatine powder (which I don’t know) I could calculate how heavy 2-3 mililiters of gelatine powder are. Basically I can only guess, I would say about 7 grams. Could that be?
I don’t know if you have a lot of international readers, but if yes it might be usefull do add imperial and metric units…
Did you use 1/4 cup water with 1/2 tsp gelatin per carboy or for both carboys?
Thanks again for your amazing blog!
“Did you use 1/4 cup water with 1/2 tsp gelatin per carboy or for both carboys?”
=> Sorry for the stupid question, you only used gelatine in one carboy.
With 7 grams I was way of (http://www.exploratorium.edu/cooking/convert/measurements.html).
I will give this a go with 4.8 grams of gelatine in 0.06 liters of water for one 20 liter keg.
~3 grams gelatin combined with 60 ml water into 19 L of finished beer.
I hear where you’re coming from and will try to remember to use other units in future posts, sorry about that.
Thanks for the fast feedback. I guess it is just as hard for somebody who is used to the imperial system to convert to metric units, we just have no imagination for the units of the other system.
I’m a gelatin proponent as well. I always add mine to the keg, but I think I will do a 5+5 batch next time and fine one in the primary and the other in the keg.
In order to “sanitize” the gelatin mix, I bloom the gelatin in room temp water for 20 minutes. Microwave on high for 30 seconds (gets it to about 120°F), then I microwave for 15 minutes at power setting 1. It took some testing, but with my microwave, power setting 1 gets water up to about 160±5°F. This is below (or right at) where gelatin will denature and not work as well (don’t boil gelatin), but hot enough that in 15 minutes it’s close to pasteurized according to the FDA.
It’s probably overkill since tap water is pretty clean, the gelatin packet is probably heat sterilized at the factory, and you are pouring into finished beer, but I use that method as an insurance policy against contamination,
I’m like you, don’t seem to be able to enjoy hazy beer as much as crystal clear one. I started using gelatin a year ago or so after considering filtration and have never looked back. It’s a step in every beer I made, no matter what. By now, I’ve got crystal clear beer in almost no time in all my beers except my Belgian Golden Strong, where the WLP570 yeast strain seems to never drop and took almost a month, unfortunately. Thanks for sharing side by side comparisons, those are similar to the results I’m experiencing in my beer too.
Cheers!
Really good blog and interesting reading. Gelatin is certainly something I’m going to consider in future now!
I’ve been using clarity ferm as it clears my beer and allows my gluten sensitive wife to drink my beers. Wondering if Gelatin will also attach to gluten much the same as clarity ferm does? If so, I can save some money switching to the gelatin route.
Interesting question, one I’m nowhere near qualified enough to answer. It’s be rad if gelatin reduced gluten like ClarityFerm does!
How long would you say the gelatin needs to stay in the beer in order to clear? I tried it on my last batch, but it actually came out more hazy that most beers I brew. I think it might be because I bottled only a couple days after adding gelatin… not sure. I also feel like I can definitely taste the gelatin, and it kind of turns my tongue numb. I have no idea what’s going on there.
Hmm. When I add gelatin, I can keg crystal clear beer as little as a day later, I’m not sure what would be causing your haze issues. Are you using 1/2 tsp combined with 1/4 cup water in a 5 gal batch?
Yup, 1/2 tsp with 1/4 cup water using Knox unflavored. Maybe the gelatin got too hot. I remember it got above 155F for a bit. I wonder if that’d have anything to do with it?
Of course, it might have something else to do with the beer all together, but I tasted and looked at the beer pre-gelatin and it definitely changed significantly after adding. There might be no way of knowing. The latest batch I added gelatin to, I made sure the gelatin solution never got above the recommended temperature in your post, so we’ll see that makes a difference.
There’s some evidence out there suggesting temp of the gelatin solution, whether it’s above 150°F or not, doesn’t actually matter. Maybe it has to due with the temp of the beer.
Oh, you know what I think it might have been? I think I got confused, and added the gelatin BEFORE the wort was below 55F. After doing more research, I’ve learned that the colder the better. So, the batch I just pitched gelatin into was all the way down to 32F when I added the solution. Sooo, maybe that’ll make a big difference. Guess I’ll find out!
Whatever happened, it was weird. And since I can’t seem to find *any* accounts of people experiencing anything remotely similar, I’m just going to keep trying until it clears my beer like it does everyone else’s!
A numb taste can be down to astringency or some other infection. Did you try the beer before adding the gelatin? Also, gelatin would just drop out the yeast, there could be other factors at play as to why its cloudy.
To check for chill haze, pour a sample, and let it warm up to see if the haze disappears, if it does then its chill haze. If not, well, who knows. You’d have to post your brewing method/details to try and spot the problem.
I did taste it before I added the gelatin and did not detect any of the numbing quality I taste now. It’s very puzzling.
I think you might be on to something with astringency though. I’ve never had that problem, but after reading up on it some, I may have used a few methods to contribute to that. I brew in a bag, mashed at 155F, sparged at about 180F, chilled to 75F in 20 minutes, then pitched everything into my carboy, trub and all. I blended noble hops with american hops, and used quite a bit of the noble hops, in an effort to get their earthy flavor/aroma. I’m wondering if the astringency is a result of the high number of hops, the high sparging temp, and the trub in the carboy. Perhaps I didn’t taste/feel it initially because the hops were covering it up, then after the gelatin removed some of the hop aroma and character from the beer, the astringent off flavor became more pronounced…
Hard to say. At any rate, I’m curious to see how my next gelatin fined beer comes out!
For science, I added gelatin to the pilsner I have fermenting now, but I’m going to let it sit a few days longer this time to make sure everything settles out.
Have you heard of Biofine? http://www.morebeer.com/products/biofine-clear-clarifier-1-oz.html It is vegetarian and supposedly works great. I am at the point where I am where I am serving a lot of my beer at events and don’t want to have to explain to people that my beer is technically non-vegetarian. After all the weird grossed out faces i would then have to say, “No, there’s no meat in it, just horse cartilage and pig tendon.” Perhaps in the future you could do a Biofine vs. Gelatin xbmt. If there’s no difference in the finished beer, then I see no reason not to go for the vege option even though I am not a vegetarian myself.
I’m a pretty nice/thoughtful guy, so I hope this doesn’t come across the wrong way, but I’m not nearly as concerned about the gelatin/veg thing as some folks. I don’t really serve my beer at many functions, and nearly everyone I have take the xBmts I’ve watched eat meat, so I’m good there. I guess I’m a bit torn about who the onus of responsibility is on– the brewer or the drinker? Either way, I do know what Biofine is and absolutely plan to compare it to gelatin at some point! I know quite a few people who had been using it before they learned of the magic that is gelatin, their results were mixed.
Any thoughts on the effect of using gelatin with leaf hops in the fermenter? I’m gettting ready to rack an IPA in a few days, and it’s for an event: I want the beer to be a crowd pleaser and I know clear beer is better with crowds. Is there any cause for concern using gelatin with whole leaf hops?
I never use leaf hops, but I can’t think of a reason gelatin would work any differently for those who do.
Hello,
Love your site, keep up the good work.
I’ve just tried gelatin fining for the first time, and two weeks later the beer has yet to carbonate. I’m curious if the gelatin slows the process down, or if I’ve made a mistake somewhere along the line. I don’t have the means to keg yet, so I bottle. My samples also had a fair amount of sediment, but they had only been refrigerated for hours, not days. Do you have any experience or information that could be useful in dealing with my problem?
Thank you!
I’ve not personally bottle conditioned beer fined with gelatin, I keg everything, but I know quite a few folks who have and it’s always worked fine. I’m inclined to think the lack of carbonation is more likely a function of cooler temps or something other than the gelatin.
Jacob,
Just a few things to throw out there that I’m sure you already have covered:
Did you dissolve the priming sugar before adding it, and any chance you forgot it, assuming you were in a hurry?
Did you still leave the bottles around 65deg?
You might try adjutating them to get the sediment stirred back up.
I use WLP029 a lot and 2-4 days @33deg with gelatin has had no effect on bottle conditioning. 2 weeks to nice bubbles. 3 weeks to awesome.
1 time I cut it to 24 hour crash in primary before kegging. Only gelatin batch to fail, lol.
Jacob, I also bottle my beer. What works for me is to cold crash for 2 days, add gelatin, wait another 2 days, then bottle. I dissolve my bottling sugar in boiling water before adding to bottling bucket. Sometimes it takes longer than 2 weeks to carb up, more like 2.5 to 3 weeks, but the results are awesome. Hooray for clear beer!
I’ve been a big believer of gelatin like others here and use it on most of my beers. However. I once made a Belgian Tripel that I wanted crystal clear so I thought I’d use an entire packet of gelatin. As it turns out, I had major carbonation issues too. Never could get that beer to force carb right. Even tried cranking the pressure for a few days. Just never really carbed up much and always wondered if it was the relatively large amount of gelatin that I used.
I see no mechanism by which gelatin could have an impact on force carbonation.
I will say, I do see some people run too short of draft lines, and get a lot of foam, but end up with beer without much CO2 in suspension.
I don’t quite understand how gelatin would impact force carbonation at all, but perhaps. I’m also pretty sure there’s a certain point where it just becomes wasteful– any more than about 1/2 tsp per 5 gallons is my guess.
I’ve only ever tried gelatin once. But I didn’t really know what I was doing with it, and the advice I had on how to use it didn’t really explain it very well either. I simply dumped it into the fermenter and then bottled it straight away. It sort of worked, but not really. The yeast all clung to the sides of the bottles.
Anyway, fast forward 3 or so years and I now have a much better system, invovling cold crashing etc (I still bottle though), so I will give it another go on my next batch and do it properly this time. Will be interesting to see the results!
Very interesting… Love your experiments. Good job!
Will have to try the gelatin with my next brew. Hopefully it can be kept out the Corny Keg… Read your review on Irish Moss. Sounds like some uncertainty on how much it truly helps. That’s all I’ve been using…
In wine making, gelatin is known to remove tannins as well.
I’ve used gelatin on my last 3 beers. It seems to have really removed a lot of hop character, similar to when a hoppy beer starts getting clear when leaving it in the keg over a couple months, so you have to account for that when adding it to a hoppy beer. It does work wonders though. I used 1/2 pack of gelatin per carboy at near freezing temps (beer) and found that it dropped the yeast in just a day or 2.
I wonder if the gelatin changes the malt character at all? I’d expect that it doesn’t change that as much or changes the overall beer for the better, so it balances out. I really don’t like using it in hoppy beers though, better to just suffer through a little extra yeast it seems, unless you can just over-hop the beer style and then use gelatin to drop the hop character down to the correct level as you clear out the yeast. For example, I don’t think using gelatin on a double IPA would be a good idea at all! Part of the reason you have to drink them fresh is due to the hop characteristics being in suspension with the yeast I think?!
This xBmt was done with a hoppy beer and the results were insignificant. I have more planned to continue fleshing this out, but I’ve been using gelatin in every batch without noticing any significant detriment.
I ordered the gelatin through your link on Thursday; Amazon delivered on Sunday; I used it a couple of hours later. The beer I’m using is an American Premium Lager so clarity is ultra important to me.
Additionally, that google search that was mentioned before… you’re #4 result. However, you do have the #1 image 🙂
I just found your site a few weeks and I haven’t finished reading all of it yet. But I love your scientific method to prove/disprove.
Follow up to the gelatin purchase… if you estimate 2 tsp per pouch and 32 pouches in a box… at 1/2 tsp per 5 gallons… that’s 640 gallons worth of fining!
I first ventured into homebrewing by purchasing a Copper Tun Starter brewery kit, which contains a 5g packet of Copper tun Finings which is just hydrolysed collagen (a.k.a. gelatin).
The instructions simply states: “Finings must be added to the fermenter 24 hours before bottling. Sprinkle over the top of your wort and give it a gentle stir to the top 5cm with a sanitised spoon”. I always bottle my beer and it comes out as clear as commercial beer, as long as you take care when pouring not to also pour the VERY thin layer of yeast sediment in the bottom of the bottle!
I now routinely add 5g DRY gelatin (from a regular store bought pack) to my fermenter 48 hours before bottling, without going through all the hassle of adding water and microwaving…
Do you think that there’s a major difference in flavor/aroma/head etc. between the dry and hydrated gelatin methods??
I never considered adding gelatin dry, sounds like a good xBmt idea! I’m very doubtful either method creates a differences in overall beer character… we’ll just have to see!
This sounds too easy and I would love to try it.
I have two fermentors cold crashing now and i planned adding hydrated gelatin to both of them today.
What is the temprature of the beer when you sprinkle the gelatin?
Tell me Werner, can it be done wihout the cold crah?
I’m not Werner… but I’ve not yet tried without a cold crash.
So I tried the gelatine on a batch of pale ale a couple of months ago. Maybe I didn’t leave it in there long enough before bottling, or didn’t use enough, or whatever, but I found the clarity was inconsistent in each bottle. Some are quite clear, others still quite hazy. I also found it caused the yeast sediment in the bottles to become fluffy and easily disturbed. Overall, not disappointed, but not jumping over the moon either.
On the following batch I tried Polyclar VT and was far more satisfied with the results. No annoyingly fluffy yeast, and consistently bright clarity across the batch. I left it in for a week this time even though it reportedly only takes 10 minutes to work, just to let it settle out fully into the trub. Even at bottling time it was very noticeably clearer than previous batches. I couldn’t believe I’d actually brewed a beer myself, that looked so bloody great. Fortunately it also tastes pretty good 😉
Not trying to discourage people from gelatine or promote Polyclar, but that was my experience anyway. 🙂
Cheers
Kelsey….Polyclar and Gelatin work on different causes of haze in beer. Gelatin works by causing larger yeast particles to drop out, but (and dont quote me on this) Polyclar works on removing proteins which cause chill haze.
If you leave the hazy beer to warm up, does the beer clear up?
Also, if you dry hop you tend to get hazy beer!
Hope this helps 🙂
Jon
Gelatin actually helps with chill haze as well. We have xBmts planned to compare all the different finings 🙂
Yeah, I know gelatine is more aimed at dropping yeast but I am led to believe it drops out some proteins as well. Polyclar removes polyphenols (tannins), which are one half of the chill haze equation. They bind with proteins at cold temps causing the hazy appearance, so I suppose it stands to reason that if they are removed then it doesn’t happen.
Yes, they do clear up a bit when it has warmed up in the glass, so I figure while it did help with the chill haze, it didn’t remove it completely. That particular beer was dry hopped yes. I’ll be testing out the Polyclar on a dry hopped beer just as soon as the weather over here warms up again and I brew a few more pale ales! Will be interesting to compare results. 🙂
So do you STILL use kettle finings? Or If you used whirlfloc would you skip the gelatin or vise versa?
“Brewers have developed numerous strategies for battling this annoying issue such as protein rests and using kettle finings like Irish Moss/Whirlfloc. My typical process includes the latter as a matter of course
…
I’ve used gelatin in all of the beers I’ve made since analyzing this data, it has worked amazingly well, clearing beers up within a day or so of being packaged.”
I bought a lb of Irish Moss and use it fairly regularly, at least when I remember; in the times I’ve forgot, the gelatin still seems to clear things up just fine.
question, I just tried this method for the first time, including cold crashing. I use a blow off tube in my ferm. chamber, partially due to height reasons. Added gelatin at about 48F last night, this am temp. down around 32F. Noticed it sucked all of my starsan into the carboy(probably about 2.5 cups)? Has this ever happened to you, or does a 3 piece airlock prevent this? Think this beer is ruined?
It happens almost every time and hasn’t been an issue.
think I’d risk any kind of infection removing the blow off tube and putting sanitized foil on, during the cold crash next time. Seems like that much starsan might effect some of the characterisitcs of the beer?
I have a buddy who does just that and it works fine. The StarSan hasn’t been an issue, in my experience.
right on, RDWHAHB then. Thanks! (This one is a DIPA around 8.5%, and was heading toward tasty town, so good to know it should be fine…)
Did you see any hints of oxidation over a period of time in the keg? It seems that just heating gelatin mixture to 150 without boiling the water first and dumping in primary would have some O2 in suspension. I’ve heard of people boiling water, chilling, then adding gelatin at 150, mixing in, then dumping in primary. On the other hand, your method makes sense since it gives the gelatin time to “bloom”. I am going to give your method a shot, just worried about oxidation. Thoughts?
Nothing I noticed at all. I don’t age beer very long, it was only around for a few weeks 🙂
If oxidation is going to be an issue at all, I think it would be very insignificant with the amount of water added. And boiling doesn’t seem like it would make a difference in the end, since when you stir in the gelatin you are going to reintroduce oxygen.
Have you ever heard of anyone using gelatin after force carbonating in a keg?
Ive used gelatin in keg proir to carbing, but my last batch of kolsch still looks like an unfiltered wheat after 10 days. Fully carbbed and tastes great…just cloudy as F!
Im tempted to hit with more gelatin, but have never used in on a carbonated beer….??? thoughts??!??!
I’ve done this before, it worked great. But the beer wasn’t fined with gelatin prior. Since your was and it’s still hazy, I’m compelled to believe it may be caused by something gelatin won’t fix.
interesting, didn’t really think of it that way. Seeing as we’ve drank about half already with this So Cal heat wave, I’m gonna leave well enough alone until the next batch!
First off I love this site and all the awesome experiments. I too love gelatin for clarity and have have been using it for the last half dozen or so batches. Originally I started with it in the keg but loved your idea of adding it straight into primary.
Question I have noticed (at least in last two batches) very small white flavorless particles, sometimes they are even flakes, again very very small, so small that I thought they were carb bubbles at first. I hadn’t noticed these previously but again may not have noticed. Anyone else experiences this?
To add… I am a full trub in the primary kind of guy. But all of it is compacted nicely before transfer.
Anwyay just curious if anyone ever sees these. My Kolsch is clearer than the store bought bottle I poured. 🙂
Cheers/Thanks.
I’ve never experienced, or perhaps have always just failed to notice, what you’re referring to in my beer.
Cheers!
Question for you… I have a German Pilsner in the fermenter now that I wanted to try using your gelatin Method of fining on… But also, wanted to try making a Schwartzbier and use the same yeast, with just pitching the wort over the yeast cake, and see how that ends up working out. (From what I’m reading it should be okay…at least up to a few times, of doing this and not the washing yeast idea.
Anyway I wondered if the gelatin will cause any problems with the yeast…? Any thoughts on this? Thanks in advance!
I’ve only ever repitched “sloppy slurry” from batches fined with gelatin, works fantastic!
Okay thanks Marshall… I haven’t done this before. So A) go ahead and use the process you recommend to use gelatin to fine the existing beer in the fermenter. B) After the fining process is done where things have settled out – Rack the existing beer from the fermenter into the 5 gallon Corny keg. C) Pour off the top of the remnant beer / yeast / trub – into some kind of jar to save for future brew — or Alternate C) Pour finished wort from new batch atop existing Fermenter with minor beer / yeast / trub – all the stuff left in the fermenter, shake it up a bunch and use it like normal. Am I missing anything?
Thanks for the help! Also good job on your blog. Lots of interesting experiments…
Bru,
What are your thoughts on fining in the keg as opposed to fining in the secondary? Couldn’t I save a step by cold crashing the secondary, racking to keg and adding gelatin prior to force carb? Please advise
I don’t even fine in the secondary because I don’t even rack to a secondary. I always add gelatin directly to primary after 12+ hours of cold crashing, once the beer is around 50F or cooler. So, really, you could save a step by doing it this way.
That said, I have fined in a keg once and have friends who do it often, it works fine, just more shit you have to pour off when you tap the keg.
You feel like you save more beer by fining in the primary?
I pretty much always get a full 5 gallons into the keg, though I’ve never really been too concerned with losing a pint or 2. In my mind, which is often incongruent with reality, fining in primary makes racking more clear to the keg easier.
I also fine in the primary. Once I found this step back in May, I haven’t looked back. I even ordered the same stuff from Amazon.
My hoodie shipped! Can’t wait to spread beer science.
I’ve already cold crashed an amber lager to 34°F. Will adding gelatin work at that temperature? Thanks!
Absolutely!
Hi Marshall, I cold crashed a Mosaic IPA and fined with gelatin in the primary at the end of a seven day dry hop. The results were very very good. But I can’t help but wonder that if I had racked the beer to a secondary after the initial fining, and fined again… if the results would have improved.
Have you done any experimentation with double fining? Do you think it’s worth a shot to try? I may try this at a later date myself to observe the effect.
Thanks for your great work. I recommend your site to fellow brewers all the time. (Usually the savvy ones are already aware :-).
Dave
I’ve never had a need to double fine… interesting concept. I’m also not a secondary guy, though I suppose I could fine in keg.
So you don’t mention allowing the gelatin mixture to cool. I assume that is a given, right? Or do you add it at 145-150*?
I’ve never had an issue with clarity in my lagers, and most of my ales I couldn’t care less if they have some cloudiness, but it would be great to have this tool in the arsenal just in case.
Again, thanks for an awesome website!
I don’t let it cool, just toss it right into the cold beer once it’s all dissolved.
Hm. Interesting.
Cool, thanks for the quick reply!
I only recently discovered this site, but your xbeeriments are really challenging the conventional wisdom and are doing a great service to the brewing coffee community. I am following your lager fermentation profile for my Munich Dunkel as we speak. Keep it up!
Just found your site, very informative. Regarding gelatin, after cold crashing you add the mixture. From this point do you let sit at 68 and allow 24hr before packaging or does one cold crash once again directly adding mixture?