Author: Marshall Schott
Way back in May 2013, I asked the fine folks over in the Homebrewing subreddit if they’d ever considered boiling an all grain batch of wort for 30 minutes, explaining I was planning to experiment with this on a batch of IPA. As you might guess, the majority of the comments I received attempted to talk me out of it with claims ranging from increased risk of DMS to haziness in the finished beer. And it worked. I left the idea alone, brewed the IPA with a traditional, err, conventional 60 minute boil. To be honest, I don’t even remember that batch, but I often recall the idea, that stupid idea…
But things are a little different now. Here I am, a trend bucking, convention questioning, myth busting dork willing to sacrifice gallons of beer for the sake of knowledge… ROOOOOAAARRR!!
Ehh, I don’t actually identify with the whole mythbusters thing, that’s never been what motivates me. Really, I’m just annoyingly curious and ask “but why?” probably more than anyone should. While thinking about ways I might shave a few more minutes off my increasingly shorter brew days, boil length came to mind and I was immediately reminded of the previously mentioned conversation. The time had finally come to test this popularly accepted principle out! I’ll admit, I was oddly excited to get the chance to present these findings to an audience that includes many of the folks who talked me out of this idea nearly 2 years ago. Not that I’m looking for vindication or anything…
| PURPOSE |
To evaluate the impact a 30 minute boil has when compared to a beer of the same recipe undergoing a more conventional 60 minute boil.
| METHOD |
After comparing The Yeast Bay’s Vermont Ale yeast to WLP090 San Diego Super Yeast in an IPA, I was pining to give ‘er a go in a lower OG beer, eventually settling on a somewhat sessionable Pale Ale recipe hopped aggressively with Amarillo from the infamous 2013 crop.
American Pale Ale
| Batch Size | Boil Time | IBU | SRM | OG | FG | ABV |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 5.5 gal | 60/30 min | 37.2 | 5.2 | 1.048 SG | 1.014 SG | 4.4 % |
Fermentables
| Name | Amount | % |
|---|---|---|
| Domestic 2-Row | 4 lbs 8 oz | 45.0 |
| Gambrinus Vienna Malt | 3 lbs | 30.0 |
| Rye Malt | 1 lbs 8 oz | 15.0 |
| Crystal 10 | 1 lbs | 10.0 |
Hops
| Name | Amt/IBU | Time | Use | Form | Alpha % |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Galaxy | 11 g/12.2 IBU | 30 min | Boil | Pellet | 15.0 |
| Amarillo | 14 g/3.3 IBU | 15 min | Boil | Pellet | 8.2 |
| Amarillo | 50 g/12.5 IBU | Flameout w/ 15 min stand | Boil | Pellet | 8.2 |
| Galaxy | 20 g/9.2 IBU | Flameout w/ 15 min stand | Boil | Pellet | 15.0 |
| Amarillo | 50 g in each fermentor | 4 days | Dry hop | Pellet | 8.2 |
Yeast
| Name | Lab | Attenuation | Ferm Temp |
|---|---|---|---|
| Vermont Ale | The Yeast Bay | 71% | 67°F |
I got my starter going a couple days prior to brewing, making sure to overbuild to harvest some for future use.
Given the independent variable in this xBmt (boil length), a double-batch brew day was warranted. Since the volume of wort boiled off over 60 minutes would be greater than that boiled off in 30 minutes, I designed 2 recipes that were the same in every respect except boil length, which was very easy with BeerSmith. I chose the no sparge method for this batch, as I do for nearly all 5 gallon batches these days, collecting about 0.5 gallons less brewing liquor for the short-boil batch to compensate for the reduced evaporation loss. BeerSmith came through on brew day and I nailed my target mash temp for each batch, despite their different volumes.
My rough-housing daughter, Olive, came out to assist for a bit, she can almost say “wort.”
The boil happened, I added hops, lots of them, then I chilled each batch in under 4 minutes using my King Cobra IC.
Due to my cool groundwater, I was able to get both worts down to 64°F without leaving them for an extended time in the cold chamber– I was aiming for my target ferm temp of 67°F since I’m not convinced pitching cooler than fermentation temp actually matters all that much, at least when healthy starters are used, but whatever. Refractometer readings made me awkwardly giddy, confirming I’d hit the same 1.049 OG target for each batch.
Each fermentor was placed in the fermentation chamber, equal amounts of Vermont Ale yeast were pitched, the ale fermentation schedule on my Black Box temp controller was engaged, and within 12 hours both had come alive.
It’s not often the beers I make require a blowoff. These did. Thankfully I caught it just before a mess was made. Annoying clean-up averted.
Both beers reached my target fermentation temperature of 67°F rather quickly and stayed there for a few days before the temps began to ramp up.
Activity in both fermentors began to slow after just 3 days, appearing mostly still only a few days later, so I took an initial FG reading.
While the difference wasn’t crazy, I was a little surprised that that short-boil batch dried out slightly more than the long-boil beer. I’m not sure why this surprised me, I guess I just expected the opposite. Anyway, after ensuring the FG hadn’t changed by checking them again a day later, it was time to crash, fine with gelatin, and keg these bad boys up.
The full kegs were left in my keezer to carbonate and finish clearing up for a few days before I began the data collection.
| RESULTS |
The authors of my favorite new book, Experimental Homebrewing, received samples of this beer for evaluation– Denny 
and his pal Brandt evaluated the beers while Drew enlisted the palates of a few Maltose Falcons members. James Spencer and Steve Wilkes from Basic Brewing Radio also participated in the xBmt, which we discussed in an episode that is available now. Much thanks to these folks as well as my local friends for their contributions!
Twenty-four people participated in this xBmt including 6 certified BJCP judges and 4 provisional judges awaiting results on the tasting portion of the exam. In order for statistical 
significance to be reached, 13 participants (p<0.05) would have to correctly select the beer that was different. Each taster was presented with 2 samples of the long-boil beer and 1 sample of the short-boil beer. A whopping 9 people (38%) correctly selected the different sample, with the other 15 tasters choosing the samples that were similar, a remarkably even split that suggests making a correct selection was nearly as good as selecting at random. Not surprisingly, the majority of tasters who were correct, 5 of 9, reported being not very confident about their selection, while only 2 said they were very confident.
When it came to comparing only the 2 different beers, all but 2 tasters reported appearance as being exactly the same, and those 2 believed the short-boil beer to look better than the other. Aromatically, 7 tasters reported the beers to be somewhat similar, 1 believed they smelled exactly the same, and 1 thought the aroma was not at all similar; of the 8 who perceived some difference, 6 preferred the long-boil beer’s aroma. All 9 participants agreed the flavor between the short- and long-boil beers were somewhat similar, with 5 preferring the former and 4 preferring the latter. Mouthfeel was said to be somewhat similar by 7 tasters while 2 thought they were exactly the same, the preference again being essentially split with 4 choosing the long-boil and 3 preferring the mouthfeel of the short-boil beer. The short-boil beer was the winner of the overall preference award with 6 participants choosing it and only 3 saying they preferred the long-boil sample.
After being made aware of the nature of the xBmt and completing the comparative evaluation, participants who were correct in the triangle test were asked to choose which beer they thought was boiled for only 30 minutes. I like this question. I like it a lot because it provides the participants a framework, allowing them to hone in on any potential problems they might expect to be caused by the manipulated variable. In this case, tasters would certainly have prepared their nostrils and tongues for differences in perceptible DMS character. Surprisingly, a 6 to 3 majority wrongly chose the beer boiled for 60 minutes.
My Impressions: This is another one of those cases where, when I poured the beers for myself, I swore I could taste a difference, but in situations where someone else poured them for me, I couldn’t tell them apart at all. I’ve the pleasure of knowing the nature of each xBmt the entire time, which likely allows me to avoid some of the expectation error I believe others fell victim to, hence I didn’t note any differences in aroma, flavor, or mouthfeel. My mind probably would have invented something if I was primed to expect a difference, I’ve no doubt.
| DISCUSSION |
As much as I want to say “I told you so,” as compelled as I feel to suggest that 60+ minutes boil are unnecessary, I’ll refrain because, well… that’d be pretty stupid. Sure, the results from this xBmt were not statistically significant, suggesting 30 minute boils don’t guarantee creamed corn off-flavors, at least when making hoppy ale. But as I’ve said before, this is only a single point of data, one dude’s experience with one batch of beer shared with 24 people. While I’m nowhere near smart enough to get into a discussion about the conversion of SMM to DMS and its subsequent volatilization during the boil, shit’s way above my head, I do wonder where in history it was decided it takes an entire hour of boiling for DMS to be reduced to imperceptible levels. Maybe this 60 minute rule was more a function of the fact the hop varieties of yore were so low in alpha acid that they simply required more contact time to impart proper amounts of bitterness. Or perhaps the fact I’m able to chill my wort so quickly has something to do with it. I really don’t know. But I’m curious.
A quick note about the actual beer– blegh! I almost felt bad for the folks who had to taste it, many who kindly provided positive feedback. I can’t say for sure whether it was the hops or not, as I apparently really enjoyed a friend’s beer made with the 2013 Amarillo crop, but I certainly didn’t care too much for the beer I used it in. It wasn’t a dumper, don’t get me wrong, but it had this sort of earthy/grassy character that didn’t sit well with me, not the wonderful orange-citrus character I was expecting. If you participated in this xBmt and didn’t like the beer, neither did I and I’m sorry; if you actually enjoyed the beer, you can find it on tap at my uncle’s house.
I plan to repeat this xBmt using a grist of mostly Pils malt and compare my standard 90 minute boil to a 30 minute boil. If you’ve messed around with boil length in your brewing, I’m beyond interested to hear of your experiences!
Support Brülosophy In Style!
All designs are available in various colors and sizes on Amazon!
Follow Brülosophy on:
FACEBOOK | TWITTER | INSTAGRAM
| Read More |
18 Ideas to Help Simplify Your Brew Day
7 Considerations for Making Better Homebrew
List of completed exBEERiments
How-to: Harvest yeast from starters
How-to: Make a lager in less than a month
| Good Deals |
Brand New 5 gallon ball lock kegs discounted to $75 at Adventures in Homebrewing
ThermoWorks Super-Fast Pocket Thermometer On Sale for $19 – $10 discount
Sale and Clearance Items at MoreBeer.com
If you enjoy this stuff and feel compelled to support Brulosophy.com, please check out the Support Us page for details on how you can very easily do so. Thanks!
59 thoughts on “exBEERiment | Boil Length: 30 Minutes vs. 60 Minutes In An American Pale Ale”
Thank you. A worthwhile experiment. I am very much looking forward to the pils version as that is my current focus. I am not looking to reduce my brew day duration or save gas necessarily but I am keen to see what the potential risks would be as I sometimes end up boiling off more than I want when doing a 90min boil, resulting in stronger lager than planned.
RE: “boiling off more than I want” .. Have I missed something?
Have you tried adding water Paul?
Good xBmt! I am looking forward to your 90 min vs 30 min pils test.
As am I!
I’m very curious to see how all of the xBmts play together. In particular, if say boil time does produce a very tiny almost imperceptible difference, will that difference plus similar differences from other xBmts like not worrying about trub, and pitch temp as much (random examples) all combine to make a perceptible decline in quality.
Too many variables involved to test reasonably I’m guessing, but a curious thought I have none the less. Since a great beer is a sum of all its parts. It seems to me that is how commercial products decline in quality so much over time. A tiny bit here a tiny bit there, each on its own not easily noticeable ultimately leads to a big difference.
Keep up the good work!
It’s coming!
so for a double IPA, I assume you would have to use a lot more hops in a 30 minute boil? – to get the desired IBUs. I cannot wait to try this next batch.
If you like real high IBU, absolutely.
The whole time I read I was thinking “what about Pilsner malt and a 90 minute boil?” Then saw it at the end. Please don’t use any flavour or aroma hops in that one! It’s nice to know that you can boil an IPA for 30 minutes and (probably) not have to worry about DMS, but to what end? Time to get out the magnifying glass!
It’s so uncommon to not use flavor and aroma hops, though. I’m about pragmatics. Hmm.
True, but I also think minimizing the hop bill will give the results more weight keep up the good work, I love the shattering of sacred tradition. I wonder if the huge industrial brewers have and continue to do these experiments themselves. Halving boil time would literally save millions of dollars in fuel, time and water.
I’ve got to believe commercial breweries employ certain practices for valid reasons, I just think as homebrewers we don’t always need to do exactly what the pros do. The fact the xBmt results seem to regularly support the null hypothesis reminds just how young homebrewing as a popular hobby really is. Cheers!
I’ve done a 15 min boil on a blonde ale with out any crazy DMS flavors. So make it two guys’ experiences. Great post!
FWIW, I frequently do 50/50 Pils/Wheat grists for my Berliners that I only boil for 15 minutes and I’ve never had a problem with DMS.
I tried to warn you about that 2013 Amarillo crop!
Excellent work as always man! I’m curious if you changed anything about how the hops were used? Did you not add any hops to the 60min boil until the 30min mark? I understand that AA utilization/more IBU’s come from longer boil time with the hops. Would this impact shorter boil beer recipes?
Great work as always! How did you treat the hops for the 60min boil? Did you only add them at the 30min point? How would this impact AA utilization if you wanted to increase IBU’s in a shorter boil beer… Just add more hops at the start?
Yep, hops added at 30 min in both. You’d definitely need to add more hops and/or use higher AA hops.
I’ve recently extended my boils to 90 minutes due to lower than expected efficiency and smaller volumes need to fill my fermenters. Oddly enough by accident I realized that I could hit my expected numbers dead on by boiling my wort for 90 and reducing to a little over 2.1 gallons. It’s a happy accident as I was making about 1.75 gallons using BIAB and getting my numbers dead on that way.
Great show! When are you gonna have your own?? I appreciate your site, thanks for all you do. Cheers!
I’ve done about 12% of my beers with a 45 minute boil, including mild, cream ale, and stout. My descision to short boil was laziness; if the first hop addition was at 45 minutes I figured that would be enough for the whole thing. If it was 20 minutes I’d probably go for that too. Might not need to add more hops if you put more FWH in with high AA. One downside to short boils might be if you are trying to carmelize some sugars.
My understanding is that carmelization takes a fairly significant amount of time, I’m not sure 15-30 minutes would make a noticeable difference.
Geez dude, getting all fancy with BJCP judges, Drew B. and Denny C! Seriously though, good article. Too bad about the beer itself. Do you think the grassy/earthy came from the hops, or by the malt profile you selected? Was it muddy (too many things going on) or just grassy/earthy?
I’ve used a similar malt profile many times, I’m pretty certain that wasn’t it. I’m no expert, but I’ve been making/drinking beer for awhile, it seemed like a hop thing. Meh, I killed 1 of the kegs myself, gave the other (half full) away.
I have a go-to Summer Ale I’ve been brewing for a while now, with a 70/30 mix of ale and pilsner malt, 5% abv hopped to 38 IBU with Amarillo and Centennial, Citra in the dry hop. I always do this as a 30 minute mash and 30 minute boil, and have never tasted anything but a bloody tasty pale ale.
I absolutely have a “lazy man’s brew day” planned where I compile many variables into one xBmt… except I’ll be brewing it next to the “neurotic man’s” batch 🙂
Is there a place to propose an experiment – how about if using grains that were milled a week (or month) ago vs freshly milled grains. Sometimes I can’t get to LHBS – it’s more convenient for me to buy grist one weekend and brew the next.
You’re the second person to suggest an old vs. fresh milled grain xBmt, I’ll have to get to this one soon, it’s definitely on the list.
Hi Marshall,
Thanks for this new xBmt !
It woult be interresting to have the same xBmt but with bittering addition with a full-length (60min) boil, to see what is the difference in Hop utilization and overall taste 🙂
I definitely have hop utilization xBmts planned, thought they’ll be designed slightly differently. Cheers!
Looking forward to it !
I’d me more interested in these results because making a brew with a 60min boil with the first addition after 30min is not something that seems natural to me.
My memory retains this from the book “Malt” – the DMS thing is based on some calc of 1/2 life boil off in “x” minutes – and only with malt that is less than 2 SRM.
Then there’s the world of “no-boil” recipes (despite good scholarship, it still makes me nervous)
http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2008/02/berliner-weiss.html
I’ve always wanted to make a take off of the “MD 20/20” name and call a beer “MB 20/20” – standing for Mash 20 minutes, Boil 20 minutes, and see how the beer turns out.
I think your xBmt has paved the way for me to do so.
Nice! I’ve very similar plans in the works 😉
Looking forward to the pilsen experiment, hopefully with minimal neutral hopping
This is probably one of those things that has been perpetuated over time by people assuming it had to be true. While I am sure there are situations and certain style where DMS perception can be an issue, it’s likely not so general as people think. It seems to me that longer boiling times may be more rooted in historical brewing practices (where they were likely boiling multiple gyles and doing multiple mashes to the same grain). I accidentally boiled my first Belgian Tripel (base malt was Pilsner malt) for the standard 60 minutes rather than the 90 minutes I had planned. I never tasted anything resembling DMS…same for the brewing friends of mine who tried it.
Great experiment and podcast with the Basic Brewing guys! Way to keep this fun, interesting and entertaining. I will say this however, first time you get that creamed corn flavor, you will boil longer! Of course, that was a Belgian-style blonde with pils malt and just a little wheat. I hate dumping a beer.
Haha. Thanks, Matt. I’m approaching 500 batches in my brewing career and have still yet to make one where DMS was an issue… if ever it happens (I’m sort of hoping it does when I redo this xBmt with Pils malt), I’ll definitely test it again just to be sure!
Another great post! Definitely the #1 homebrew blog on the internet!
I thought one of the main purposes of boil time was beer stability. (Shelf life)
But I may have misinterpreted the data.,
See link for an article on the subject ..
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByP8AKj1KwWOZXRQYXp1NWJqb212dDVnc2M5dDlldUZwbDl3&authuser=0
Might want to check the flavor 2-3 months in, if not done already.
Perhaps, but even so, what homebrewer is concerned about a beer being shelf stable? 😉
True! Most brews don’t require 2 month stability.
But if your bottling for extended periods or making a high gravity beer…. Certainly a consideration.
That is a great article, thanks for posting. It should be noted that manybiological/chemical processes follow some sort of saturation curve, which prompts the questions: What boil time do we no longer see a significant change in stability? Likewise: is 30 minutes enough? Is 60 overkill? It all depends on where it falls on that saturation curve…
I was reading a thread (argument) about this xbmt here
http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=70677
One of them had done some numbers on evaporation percentage and volume. IIRC the suggestion is its evaporation % that matters for driving away off flavors.
thanks to you, I just had a 1 hour, 47 minute brewday! 5 gal, BIAB, all-grain. https://onepotbrewing.wordpress.com/2015/03/27/the-fastest-brewday-ever-1-hour-47-minutes-5-gallons/
Thanks for all the xBmnts. I just found your site a couple weeks ago. I’ve since flashed my STC-1000 and loaded your profiles, cut my mash time in half, and cut 20min (or longer) from letting trub settle before going into fermenter, and now I can start shaving time on the boil too! You rock!
In a similar vane, poking the DMS bogey man, have you thought about a lid on vs lid off experiment,? Boil-off can cost a lot of energy!
Why not try this with a 90%+ pilsner malt Helles? If the result is the same it would be way more conclusive than with an only 45% pale malt grist, don’t you think?
Cheers!
It’s on the list 🙂
It would be intereting to combine a 30 min mash with a 30 min boil Vs 60 min mash and boil exbeerment.
Definitely! 😉
George Fix did a lot of lab analysis stuff on DMS formation. His model for it had three variables: initial SMM concentration, boil time, chilling time. Basically, your end of boil SMM concentration determines potential DMS. While you are boiling, SMM evolves to DMS and all DMS is driven off in seconds. Once the boil stops, SMM evolves to DMS as long as the wort is above 50 C, but it doesn’t boil off (or does so very slowly, with steam), it remains in the wort. During fermentation, DMS is “boiled” off by the CO2 production. SMM, by the way, has a half life of about 40 minutes at boiling. Now, I don’t see a single statement in Fix’s stuff to show that he studied the evolution of DMS in actual brewing, it’s more like laboratory analysis which is alleged to match the real world, but he did do some work on DMS measurement in packaged beers and showed that levels reached as high as 120mg/L in pale german lagers and seemed to think that matched his model.
Ignoring the maths that he gives, his model predicts 120ppm *potential* DMS in your beer, which is twice the identifiable threshold for the compound, and that doesn’t account for DMS produced while mashing, which is removed in the boil. Additionally, half of all DMS is typically removed during fermentation, for an upper limit of DMS around 60. In short, his model predicts your result and I have no idea, since he seems to have been the authority on the point, why we all thought we needed to do 90 minute boils for ales. For lagers, you’d have more like 300ppm potential DMS, which could be a serious issue if you can’t cool it fast.
Would you consider doing a similar experiment where the vigour of the boil is tested? Say do a batchs with 60min boils but one at 5% and one at 20% evaporation?
Absolutely.
I’ve very surprised you don’t have to use a blowoff tube when using carboys. I do everytime..
It puzzles me why you would use a recipe like this given what you were trying to test. It seems very inappropriate. I suggest repeating the experiment with a SMASH recipe, using Pilsner malt and Hallertau, and going light on the late additions. Pilsner is prone to producing DMS, isn’t it? Now that might provide some useful information….
You mean liiiiiike this: https://brulosophy.com/2015/09/14/boil-length-pt-2-pilsner-malt-exbeeriment-results/
We had some lab data analysis done as well: https://brulosophy.com/2015/10/08/update-lab-data-on-pils-malt-boil-length-exbeeriment/
Legit, Im gonna do a 30 minute boil on my stout. New baby = trying to save time on brew day. Thanks for the info!
I have had great success making NEIPAs doing only a 10-15 minute boil (ex: 0.50 oz of bravo at the boil), followed by a 30-45 minute hop steep or “whirlpool” below 170f.
If I don’t need to bitter it, what’s the point? Just a waste of energy.